Hi all, new to forum- I have a unique situation in that my father is elderly, but my mother is not, and dad is alone. Many of my friends don't understand because their parents aren't elderly, so I am seeking advice here.
My father married late in life to my mother, who is nearly 25 years younger. I am their only child, and they split when I was a teen. The divorce left me traumatized and depressed. Against my mother's wishes, I chose to live with my dad. Soon after my mom moved out, I began to understand why she had a hard time getting along with my dad. He can be very controlling and occasionally meets the criteria of emotional abuse. He has anxiety, especially when things don't go the way he pictured.
I'm similar to him in that I'm prone to anxiety and depression, with perfectionist tendencies. Our similar personalities can cause problems, especially when we have differing opinions. Overall, he loves me unconditionally and has devoted the last 30 years since I was born to making sure that I am set up well for the future. He took on the role of mother and father when I pushed my mom away. As a teen, I struggled with him greatly due to our differing opinions, but I have grown to understand him and truly believe that he means well and just lets his emotions get the best of him at times. He has always been there for me. I love him deeply.
I got married 6 years ago and moved out of state. My dad and I have maintained our close relationship over the phone every day. We do occasionally argue, but that is generally when one of us is under stress. I feel like our relationship has strengthened since I moved, partially because I have matured into an adult, but it could also be because we aren't living under the same roof.
Now that my husband and I have a baby, we feel inclined to move back to our hometown. All of our family and many friends still live there. We have no help with the baby here, and my husband works a lot. I'm currently unemployed, and since our baby isn't yet in school, the timing feels right for a move. My dad has offered for us to move into my childhood home. It is twice as big as our current home, and the mortgage is paid off. Financially, this seems like a great idea; the catch is that my dad would be living downstairs. I assume that the changes would be difficult for him but easier than moving him to another home or city. I like the idea that I could be there to help him (and he could help me while he's still in good health). I fear that he can't care for his large house much longer, and (selfishly) I know that I will be left to deal with the house when he's gone. His vision is poor, so it comforts me to know that I could be there for him. My husband is excited to be closer to his family again too, and giving our baby the opportunity to grow up near family is priceless. I'd like to think this could be a win-win for all; however, I have concerns about privacy/independence and my dad's controlling tendencies. I do think he would respect our privacy for the most part, but I don't want to isolate him in the basement. It is a finished basement with a full bathroom and mini kitchen, so he could stay there if we have guests and he doesn't wish to join the group, but I wouldn't expect him to stay down there 24/7. I want nothing more than to raise my child in a loving and happy home, and I know that we will have to move if things don't go well. I am scared to give up my husband's job and everything we have built for ourselves here, but I fear what will happen if we don't go back. My dad is 85, and I am his only surviving immediate family member. He has nobody except a couple of neighbors to check on him, and it isn't fair to expect them to do so. He doesn't want us to make our decision based on him and has been adamant that he wants us to do what will make us happy. I am very grateful for that. The rest of our family feels the same. I am torn and unsure what to do. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I appreciate any advice.
I love having Mom here with me. I know she is well and finally enjoying her golden years. She has a special relationship with her youngest great-grandson (4) where he visits for Grandma to read to him or he watches cartoons and plays at her feet. There have been some challenges in her care, particularly this year when she has been injured twice in falls. I'm not quite as tied down to the house as many because I moved next door to family and usually have someone to stay in the house with Mom while I escape for an hour or two. I can also afford to hire a care giver when I need to work in the office.
For me, the arrangement works very well. The time I spend caring for Mom is less than the time I would spending traveling to her home to provide the same care or maybe even just visiting if she were in a facility. There's less stress worrying about her, which would come back to a degree if she were in a facility. Mom and I agreed before she moved in that we would keep this arrangement as long as possible, but if a time comes when she needs 24/7 nursing care, then she would need to enter a facility and I would visit and make sure she has good care. There have been adjustments I have needed to make to deal with Mom's short term memory issues and general aging. Currently Mom isn't very mobile (knee is healing from last fall) and we're using incontinence underwear that I must be around/back to change so my time outside the house is more limited. I don't miss any "privacy" by having Mom in my home; I feel the kids impact my privacy much more. Mom has a sister who's 20 years younger and Mom stays with her when I need to travel for business or take a vacation with the kids.
My advice is that your father's personality and your (and your husband's) ability to compromise and adapt with changing events and needs will be the biggest drivers of how successful a multi-generational home will be. If your father died next week and you inherited that house, would you choose to live there with your family? If the answer to that question is no, then I don't think you should consider moving back into that house. When your father needs help with his ADLs will he accept an in-home companion/caregiver? Will there be resources available for in-home care beyond the few hours a week Medicare will provide for bathing and personal care assistance? When you want to take the kids out for a few hours or go on vacation? My Mom loves to watch the kids play and goes with us to pools and parks - anywhere she can take a perch and watch the happenings.
Are there resources and land available to build a study/suite for Dad on the main level? Those stairs can become a problem for you down the road. If the basement is completely below ground with no natural light or fire escape, it may not even be a legal bedroom area.
Lots of people here have told you they didn't know what they were getting into bringing a parent into their home, got "trapped" and now feel they made the wrong choice. Not everyone feels that way; not every parent is the same. Consult an attorney then consider and plan carefully.
unless you’ve tried it out fir a few weeks or months, I would not sell your house and move until you’re 100% sure you can handle the loss of privacy, independence, and the role of caregiver full time.
Seems like you will need an appointment with and estate planner before your dad gets too much older. Good luck. You will have your eldercare heartbreak sooner than many of us do, so most likely will weather it better than old ppl often do.
A few more things I’d like to add....As I mentioned, I always had a good relationship with my parents. One of the saddest things that has occurred is that now, in the last years of my father’s life, my relationship with him is filled with negativity and bad feelings. I know that my only “out” is when he dies. It is almost impossible to make a u-turn and ask him to go into an assisted living after two years of living with us - it would break his heart and leave me with nothing but guilt.
Finances were never a part of the picture - my husband and I are well off and my father has a good income and assets - yet, he has a negative image of any assisted living establishment and thinks “if I have to go there, it means my daughter doesn’t love me”. It’s a sort of emotional blackmail and though I don’t think he really means to make me unhappy, the current situation has made me miserable. Even though he could well afford a nice nursing home, it is something he has always insisted that he would NOT want to do. So, because I started down this road, I am stuck in my situation with him and the worst part is that after 60 some good years, our final years with him are going to be filled with resentment on my part for those last years.
As an only child like me, you also, have probably been used to a lot of privacy - and that will end. Friends tell me to “Get out of the house and do things”, yet the worst part is that there is no privacy or quiet time for me in my OWN home. Elderly people become very critical of the world immediately around them, and as his caretaker, you become his world. He exudes a lot of negativity..... whether it is about politics, tv shows, family members, or people in general - it can become a real drag on you. The world, for the mind of an elderly person, exists only 6 inches beyond their body - they become very anxious, grouchy, and non-compliant about any changes around them.
Trust me, for the well being of your marriage, your child, and your own mental health, it will be best for you to live nearby, but NOT with him. You will have no escape once you go down this road - and you will have a much better relationship with him at arms length. Good luck, I know it’s a difficult decision, but listen to those people on this board who have lived thru similar situations.....there is a reason they take the time to alert others about the path ahead.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I guess that's something that I hadn't considered...that if he got used to relying on us and refused to leave his home and fired his aides, then we'd feel "stuck." We already haven't been on a vacation in over five years. Our last real vacation was our honeymoon. We were on the bottom of the totem pole at our jobs fresh out of college when we got married, so we only had ten days of vacation and used it all to have our wedding in our hometown and go on a five day honeymoon. Many of our friends went on a honeymoon twice as long and go on vacation multiple times a year like yours. Instead of going on vacation, we've spent all of our time off traveling back home to see our family a few times per year. We thought moving back would free up more time for vacation, but I see now that attaching ourselves to my dad could prohibit us from doing so if not now, then possibly soon when he needs help. The reality is that he may need help sooner than later because even if he lives to 100, most people don't make it well into their 90s without needing some sort of assistance. My husband and I are only thirty. I feel like I missed out a lot on my childhood, and I don't want the same for my children. Thank you for getting more of my thoughts stirring. I wish you luck getting out of your rut.
Have you ever sought the advice of a counselor or therapist? I think the time might be right for you and your husband to visit someone and lay this plan out and find out where the holes are.
Personally, I wouldn't/couldn't do this. I was talking last night at a family wedding with a cousin who took her blind and demented mother in law into her home (with many hours of aide help per week). She and her husband laughed hysterically about what blessed innocents they were in their assumptions that this would work out. One highlight was the moment when "Auntie" stood at the top of the stairs, stark naked and called out that she was looking for the "lady of the house".
Please think about your choices carefully. I have lots and lots of friends with elderly parents. I can't think of a single situation in which family moved the elder in with them or the family moved in with the elder where it has ended well.
Oh my, I hate to say that I laughed about your auntie. Funny story, but not a funny situation. I know that must be very stressful and uncomfortable situation for your cousin and many others going through similar situations.
My husband's grandmother has dementia and previously put herself and her husband in several dangerous situations before any of us realized how bad she was (he was hiding it because he didn't want to lose her).
I hope and pray that none of us ever have to go through that, but I know it's a reality for many. I'll share all of this with my husband. Thank you again for your support. It means so much.
I am in the same boat with my dad regarding the 'controlling tendencies' and 'just like me'. As my dad progresses, (dementia) I have found that our relationship has suffered. He can be downright abusive. Living with your father may not be the experience you expect. He will have health issues that you will need to help with. You are all ready a caregiver, now adding another person...
A new baby. Babies require a lot of love and attention. My father became very impatient and demanding. Being the only person to care for your father is going to take a physical toll. Emotionally it drains you too. Nothing in my life ever prepared me to see the loving, super intelligent person I used to know lose his way as he ages. Can you handle the temperament changes your father might have?
Right now my dad is fighting to go into assisted care. He is too abusive and I could never attend to him because of his medical problems. I will soon be the only caregiver as everyone else has checked out. I have decided that my father will do better in an environment where he has access to doctors and there is some space between us. We are too much alike. I think in my situation, my father living with me would destroy my marriage and put too much stress on my family.
You appear to have options. You could sell this large house and buy a smaller one nearby and then put your father in a place where he can live independently but still be close enough to see your family. I'm not sure of his needs entirely, but I do know a few blind people who live alone and love their independence. If you move in together everyone will be giving up their privacy.
Sorry to sound negative. I wish you the best. I'm a realist and if someone had told me years ago how difficult these situations are I might be doing better now.
It seems common that the needs and moods of an aging parent take over the home. No price can be put on having your emotional health, your peace of mind, and a happy home for your child. If your dad is sincere about wanting you to do what is best for you - he will understand if you want to live in your own house independently. You could always get a house nearby, and spend most of the days together.
As a kid, my grandmother stayed with us each summer. I still remember her nagging cough and negative attitude and how much better it was when she left. If you move in, it will be difficult to shield your child from the effects of your father's inevitable decline.
Your Father's basic character will become dominant in your home-life, in HIS house. He will not allow you to forget that, ever.
Controlling people will act within character, even living in other people's homes, let alone their own. I know this from experience and I am broken because of it.
It will always be HIS house and living there will fracture your own family structure, independence, marriage. You risk bringing your child into an invisibly controlled atmosphere that turns family life on it's head.
Think:. Lose Lose. NOT Win Win
Please, don't do it.
Polar Bear is so right.
As Mom's needs increase, we'll likely have to add an in-home nurse to the mix, or explore a different arrangement, but we are taking things one step at a time. It's just impossible to know what will happen with her health or if there is something else that will get in the way of things working so well. For now, it is remarkable how similar my Mom's and my toddler's needs are! We sit down together every night for dinner, and alternate bath nights. ;)
The only wrinkle we've had so far is my siblings, who are somehow convinced that I've stolen money from my Mom (I haven't). I'd say in this case not having sibs is a blessing! I encourage you to try it, and if it doesn't work, you can make different arrangements. But at least you won't have regrets.
In my opinion, your dad's house, money, assets, etc. are all HIS, and are to be used for him and his care for life. IF there's any left over after his death, then you may inherit it IF he wants you to have it. It's within his right to give it to a charity, or anyone else besides you. You should not expect to inherit anything from anyone. You and your husband, as independent adults should build your own wealth, buy your own place, and support yourselves.
Remember the adage: There's no such thing as a free lunch. When you move into HIS house living rent free, you will pay some other ways and trust me you will. You will no longer be independent. You will no longer have your privacy, your living space is not yours because it's not. It is unreasonable to expect your dad to keep to the basement 24/7. The whole house is HIS. He will have his say about anything and everything that is his. What are his expectations in lieu of you living rent free? Keep him company, take him places, cook and clean for him, do things for him, and do things his way, pay utilities, pay for food, pay for upkeep of the house, etc.? And those are reasonable expectations.
At the first argument you or your husband will have with your dad, he can easily tell you: "If you don't like it here, you can always move." Then what? Your most basic security, the roof over your head, your husband's and your child's, is shaken and at risk. Your relationship with your dad will be strained to say the least whether you stay or move.
As for his health, he is still able and independent but he will get older and weaker, and will need more care. Please DO read the many questions posted by others in the AgingCare forum and you will get a feel for what age related issues others face with their elderly: immobility, incontinence, dependency, loss of socialization, forgetfulness, falls, driving dangerously, etc.
Not now, but two, or three or five years down the road, will you be able to cope with the above issues? Can you be with him 24/7 to make sure he's not alone and won't fall, and help him to the bathroom, clean him up, change him? If he gets dementia, can you put up with him telling you the same thing 20 times a day? Or him being violent? Or him having night terrors and calling the cops a few times a week? These are all issues others have posted here.
Right now, you mostly think: free rent, big house that will be mine, being close to relatives, being near dad to help him. If your dad didn't have a big house, would you move back?
Your dad most likely thinks: they can come and live here and keep me company in MY house so I am not lonely, they can help me as I age, they can help with the upkeep of MY house, and when I'm gone, they can have it (but not before.)
My advice: if you want to move back, move to your own place. You can come and help dad when you can. Your dad should seek advice of an elder attorney to guide him on how/what he should do for his care in the near future. Maybe he should sell the house, put money in a trust for his care. It will cost $10K-$15K a month at an assisted living facility or a nursing home. His money and assets are his to be used for his care.
I would strongly advise you to move into your own place. Once we moved out from my mother's home, our relationship went back to normal. What I thought would be a win-win situation, turned out to be a nightmare! I wish you the very best, and please keep us posted!
There are probate considerations and tax implications.
Examples:
1) We bought a modest house from a young woman whose dad had added her name to the title a few months before he died. As a result, she owed thousands in taxes on the gain between his purchase price and what we paid her. If she had got title at his death, either by inheritance or a Transfer on Death deed, she would not have owed taxes at all.
2) With excellent estate planning, I inherited real estate by Transfer on Death deed. This avoids the above problem, and also keeps the property from having to go through probate. Often, probate fees are based on the value of the probate estate. Other assets can be titled as TOD also, such as vehicles; and financial assets like bank accounts, retirement funds, etc., can be titled as Pay on Death or have beneficiaries named, all avoiding probate.
Since you are, presumably, your dad's only heir, and he wants to provide well for you, he will want to have these plans in place, and an Elder Law attorney can save you a lot of grief and expense, and might even have some insight and recommendations about your current dilemma about moving in with dad.
My first concern would be for your child as should your’s be. I’m not wishing this on you, but at some point, Dad’s emotional issues may take a downturn. All us grandparents think we know more about raising children than our kids do. You say you have hopes he won’t interfer but it does seem like he has not many filters when it comes to voicing his opinions. Would this tend to negate your joy to be back “home?” As your child grows, will you want him/her exposed to Grandpa’s emotional issues? You indicate you’re prepared to move if things don’t work out, but those plans, as well as plans for Dad’s care if you cannot care for him should absolutely be part of your pre-planning before you make a final decision. His vision loss is permanent. Can you handle being a guide for him? Has he accepted this handicap? Or, will it add to his emotional concerns? Consider that if you want to move back home, perhaps a smaller house close to Dad where you could live on your own might work.
I wish you success with this endeavor. I really hope it’s a very positive one.
I never imagined sending either of my parents to a NH, but I also never imagined having them move in with me. I guess we all want that perfect "pass away peacefully in their sleep" experience.
Thank you for your kind words and good points.
As far as isolation goes, I am definitely concerned about him being in a dark basement alone since he is prone to depressive emotions; however, he would have more human interaction with us living in the house than he currently does. He rarely sees anyone he knows unless he runs into an old acquaintance at the store.
I hadn't anticipated allowing him to watch the baby while I am out, only while I run to take a shower...however, that may not be a good idea either since they would still be unattended. I hadn't considered my dad getting knocked over by my toddler...that's a very good point. My dad is very strong and walks well, but with his vision, he may not be able to respond quickly enough. I'm sitting here with light bulbs going off because my dad has repeatedly asked me over the years to stop leaving my shoes and random items on the floor because he doesn't see well and might trip over them. My toddler is notorious for unloading every drawer/cabinet he can, dragging shoes across the floor, toys strewn everywhere...that could be a minefield for my dad if I wasn't there to watch over both of them. Yikes.
We do plan to have more children, and that is a concern of mine as well, both as the house isn't laid out well for that despite its generous size, and caring for my dad should he end up needing care could hinder our plans for more children, which doesn't sit well with me. I don't think my dad would want that for us either, as he has expressed in many conversations that he does not want me to make any decisions based on him, and he doesn't want me to have to take care of him. I want to be prepared though as all of you are suggesting because there's always a chance that someone can change their mind when problems arise. I am making a pros and cons list as I type this. Thank you.
Many have mentioned dementia, everyone is different, but many times people do become aggressive, when they feel vulnerable or inadequate. My mother and now my MIL ( who is starting to have I think vascular dementia), blames someone else for misunderstandings, or incidents that occur. You, will be the brunt of them. My mom told everyone that I took her driver's license for no reason at all, although she failed her driver's test, twice. At that point she could still hide from most people that she had ALZ. I should have had the doctor give her the news. ( Only after that incident did I get the advice that when possible allow someone else be the person to point out their failure. So I would try to gain knowledge of at least early dementia. It is an exhausting, disease for the caregiver, even when they are cooperative.
Even without dementia, older people's dominant traits tend to become more pronounced. And for almost all older adults, structure and routine become very important in their daily lives. (This is also good for small children, so it may be good, in your case). So as mentioned it is important to set up boundaries, prior to moving in, so everyone knows their roles. At the same time, think of yourself in 5 years, will you want to go back to work, how will you keep a social life, (very important for mental health at your season of life), how do you keep your marriage and family healthy. Your father is only 85, these days you could be caring for him for another 10-15 years, in home and/or at a LTC facility.
Then not mentioned is just physical demise. To what point of incapacity do you feel comfortable giving care, and how much would he expect or allow you to give? If he is just unsteady, had a few falls, do you make the house more handicap accessible, or is it time to go to LTC. would he allow you to see him naked to help him bathe...
A big benefit of being there is it may be less stressful, because you can rely on his social circle to help, where from a distance you may not know them nor their present capabilities. It sounds like you still have social ties yourself. Your child will hopefully have a good experience of what it is to be family and care for the elderly, and gain wisdom from your father.
The biggest pitfall I see is the stress on your marriage. Make time for dates, and routine time for communicating feelings. In a college family and marriage class the teacher said most people go to counseling after one has already decided it is done. Marriage takes attention and open communication. Also, be aware we will find issues with your father before you do, not because he wants to, but he does not have the blinding bond. I think my sister-in-laws were saying things to me 3 years before I accepted that my mom had dementia. My mom was always able to give me a logical explanation as to why things occurred the way they did. (Strange how the brain did not function correctly at the time, but could come up with a rational explanation). I found there were many things they did not tell me, because they saw I was not accepting what they did say. Now I am telling my sister-in-law, and she is trying to figure out an ulterior motive, as to why I would say these things. She lives 1000s of miles away. It can't be that I am concerned. My husband is only starting to see it after 3 years and will not share it with his sister as she is very stubborn. The other week she called me to ask if the meatballs I bought for her were raw or already cooked. My SIL who just spent a week with her says she just has normal cognitive changes of aging.
I wish you well.
I will definitely have to discuss care with my dad regardless of what we decide to do and before he gets to the point that he needs it so that we could decide what we feel comfortable with and at what point we'd be in agreement that he needs to go into a facility with assistance.
I like what you said about having his social circle there; however, he doesn't have one. My mom (his ex-wife) lives relatively close, along with her mother and sister. They would be there for him if he was in an emergency state, but they obviously aren't there to care for him daily (otherwise my mom wouldn't have divorced him). The same goes for my husband's family, who are also in the same town. My dad's old friends have mostly all passed away. He hasn't tried to make new ones. He has a handful of friends and relatives that he talks to on the phone and sees about once per year, but he doesn't make social contact daily or even weekly and rarely even monthly. The highlights of most weeks are his errands and appointments, and of course when we come to visit a few times per year. Nothing has changed since I lived there post-college about 6 years ago. He has the same neighbors that I grew up with. They are very nice and willing to help, but again...in emergency situations. They have their own lives and children and even grandchildren to care for. He frequently mentions to me that it's hard taking care of such a big house by himself. I've encouraged him numerous times to downsize, but I think he's hanging on to his last hope that I'll want to keep the house.
Yes, fortunately I have many social ties there...many more so in fact than I do where I currently live. I've lived in our current town for about 2 years and the area for about six. I lived in our hometown for 23 years, so I know hundreds if not thousands of people in his area once you include the family ties, but I know that won't solve all of our problems.
It’s the little things that will drive you crazy - and you can’t escape them - things you might encounter:
He has hearing aids, yet the TV is constantly on at a high volume. He must have the speaker feature on to talk on the phone and he screams into it b/c he cannot hear himself.
He is constantly cold and the temperature is uncomfortable for us (not to mention the gas/electric bill is so much higher).
We have had to curtail our socialization in our home because he is always there and we have no privacy with our friends.
We cannot plan any trips without first arranging someone to stay with him and pre-prepping meals for him.
We are his only socialization - all of his friends are dead - this is a big burden to bear.
When our grandchildren come over, he gets anxiety about their play habits and constantly worries that they will “hurt themselves”.
When I suggest that he might want to go into his room - he states that he likes to be with other people. (The fact that he “lives” downstairs might not give you the privacy you’re expecting.
He doesn’t like to try new foods and complains about the food I make.
His personal habits have become such that he hates to shave, showers are rare, and he eats with his mouth full and smacks his lips.
I have become a full time caretaker doing his laundry, changing bed sheets, cleaning his room, preparing his meals, driving him to doctors, etc.
You mentioned that you have a new baby and your first priority will want to be for the baby - that is not always the case when you have an elderly person living with you. Your father may be somewhat healthy now, but things can go downhill quickly when you least expect it. I’m sure the financial aspects are appealing, but (trust me) no amount of money is worth losing your independence and privacy. Good luck.
My only real privacy is my bedroom when the door is shut and locked. Because the younger kids often watch TV on my bed and I frequently close the door when the TV located just outside my door in the living room is playing, kids enter my room pretty much at will during the day/evening unless the door is locked. So I lock it when I want true privacy. It doesn't bother me to walk into open common room (living, dining and kitchen) and find someone there. Not everyone feels that way.
Posters have complained about the older generation not staying in "their" part of the home like following them in the kitchen or sitting in the living room until bedtime. Many younger folks want the common areas of the house exclusively for a part of the day or evening or when entertaining. I don't think there is a right or wrong here, only problems when people trying to live in the same home have different expectations. My 4 year old grand-nephew has learned he needs to ask others if he wants the channel changed on the living room TV when its already playing. If it's off, he gets to pick the show/movie.
You and your husband need to be very honest with yourselves and your father. What are your expectations/agreements for the "common" areas of the house? Does your father agree?
BTW: Is there a way into the basement area your father would occupy without stairs? Or is the stairway wide enough to accommodate a chair lift if it was ever needed? Please consider future possibilities and discuss with your father before you move in.
We have discussed the stairs as a potential obstacle, but he was offended that I would bring that up since he doesn't currently have an issue using them to get to his car in the garage. The chair lift is something I've already considered should he ever need it. I do fear him not admitting that he can't see well enough and falling down the stairs. I previously begged him to move somewhere without stairs, but he didn't want to move.