I am at my wits end. My whole family has been a train wreck and through it all I have been made to be the responsible party. My parents moved to our hometown in 2004 and since I have been caretaker to Mom and sister (long, horrible illnesses) and since have been caretaker to my Dad. He was an only child and terribly spoiled. Also a complete narcissist who only cares about what others think about him and he has fooled many people. I am the youngest of 4. My surviving older two siblings do nothing and rarely come to visit. My husband and I do everything for my father. We have two wonderful, sweet sons. For some reason my father can’t stand them. None of my older sibs have children or are married.I am my fathers POA and executor and in 2011 he wrote both my kids out of his will without even telling me, and never offered an explanation when I asked. They have come home from college every Holiday and spent time with him. The last two Thanksgivings have been the worst. Last year I cooked dinner and brought it to his AL and invited several of his friends. He did not speak once to my sons. This year one of my older sibs was supposed to come down (neither has visited him in literally decades for the Holidays) and cancelled at the last minute. We already had plans that we could not (for his safety) include him in so we took him to dinner the following day. Another disaster. He said he had already eaten and then just sat there not speaking unless asked a direct question.When we dropped him off he finally spoke to my sons and said ‘Well see you in a year, I guess’. My eldest, who never flares said ‘what do you mean?, I’m back in three weeks!’ my husband and I feel so trapped, and so maligned. We do everything and have always included him and he is just arrogant and pitiful. I think it is past time subjecting my kids to his nasty, self pitying behavior. I feel it is at the root of why my family didn’t thrive. It is hard to do though, because I’ve been trained to serve the parents and it is time to stand up for myself, my husband, and kids.I know many others have such worse things to contend with, So I am thankful to have this forum for a little respite.
I think you all deserve a holiday at home together without grandpa .
You can bring him a meal the day before or day after. If he gives you grief , use some excuse to leave .
I understand it’s hard . I was trained the same way you were .
Sounds like you are ready to put more boundaries . It gets easier the more you do it .
No, you shouldn't.
We are fiercely protective of children, especially those who are knowingly exposed to and forced to engage with, toxic, hurtful relatives who don't like them, out of a misguided obligation by their parent. So many of US have PTSD and assorted anxieties and issues from dealing with toxic parents and grandparenrs ourselves. Then we see a post like this and OMG. You're bound to get honest comments you don't like. The type of comments that get your defenses UP are those that should make you stop and think the hardest about what you're doing and WHO you're defending and why? Your children come first, not some mean old man whose held an unnatural amount of power over you your entire life. Yes, it's way past time you stood up for yourself, your husband and children now, if it's not too late to make a difference.
"Most adults are still living for the approval of their parents. Trying to get the love they didn't get as children. Living life for someone else leads to one path: regret. The most important skill to develop as an adult is the ability to disappoint."
@the.holistic.psychologist
Enjoy the Holidays with your family. and forget about tending to this person for a day or two. Sounds like you deserve it.
"Oh, but the holidays are coming up and -- "
A holiday is just another day. Another day where dad can manipulate all of you for his personal amusement. Don't enable him!
I knew a guy who was a diagnosed narcissist. His kids were afraid of him, two wives had left him, and his friends had wised up and disappeared. He continued to provoke discord with his grown kids by body-shaming his daughter until she cried, challenging his sons' decisions on everything, sucking the air out of every room they were in by bragging, shunning, yelling, making grandiose statements, whatever. He stole their self-esteem, he put them down, and he laughed as he did it.
After being a neutral observer for years, I asked him why he did this. I wanted to know how watching them suffer satisfied him. He looked at me disdainfully and said, "Because it's FUN."
This is how people like your father think. Realize it and act accordingly.
Burnt said once that honoring your parents does not mean you need to care for them. It means you honor them by being the best person possible. When we become adults, we start separating from our parents. They should no longer be the center of our world. We should be enjoying times with friends. Getting married, having children if thats what we want. Your family then becomes #1. On the parents side, children leaving the nest means freedom to now do what they want. They should find interests. Your POA does not mean your at Dads beck and call. It gives you the ability to handle his finances and medical. You don't have to see him. Drop off anything he needs.
I agree at 97 kind of late to change you and Dad. You can lessen the time you spend with him. He is safe, warm and fed. If he does not take advantage of the activities and try to make friends, thats his problem. Its OK to block him. Its OK not to visit him. Let your kids make up their own mind how much time they want to spend with him. Respect earns respect. What goes around comes around. This is Dads come around, you treat people like Dad has it comes back to you. Not that he would see that.
At 97 Dad needs you more than you need him. The rolls have reversed. You tell Dad how its going to be not the other way around. And your boys written out of his Will, grands are rarely in a Will. Mine aren't. My girls get whatever is left. Their children will inherit from them. Holding inheritance over your head is a manipulation. Tell him you don't care.
Wills are often used by mean elders as a cudgel, so they write everyone in so they can write them OUT. Normally I think one gives their "estates" to their progeny, who give it then to theirs.
I know you are not not dealing with dementia, but I am writing because she was always like this. It is so frustrating and so ridiculous that we are expected to serve, read the mind of, and meet all the expectations of someone who constantly moves the goalposts.
Is he upset that your siblings don’t visit? Your father is telling you he doesn’t enjoy your visits. Believe him.
My advice? If you continue to visit, leave your kids out of it. Do not include meals. Keep the situation simple such that, the moment he starts shovelling negativity, you can say “Sorry Dad, sounds like we/I have caught you at a bad time. Bye.” Take back YOUR power.
However, it is now important to fully accept and recognize that you are an adult. You are grown up. You have a wonderful family of your OWN, with precious children who make you happy.
You are clearly very bright. You understand, therefore, that your caregiving of someone really quite monstrous, has been your own choice. And now you have a further choice to stop doing what you are doing. It is harming you, so it is a sort of "self=harming" punishment. It is harming your loving family who is being taught by your actions to serve and care for and be afraid of the "monsters under the bed".
I ask you to ask yourself why you are continuing into adulthood, and teaching your children thereby, to placate monsters?
I think there is a need here for cognitive therapy with a good tough therapist who will shake you a bit out of habitual ways of behaving that have no place in your present and future for the good of your precious family, who are your first obligation, and for your own good. Therapy will take you NO TIME at all because you already have tremendous insight into all this.
Your dad's limitations preclude him from ever, at this point, snapping out of a lifetime of his own behavior. You will never be hearing from him "You are a wonderful daughter and I love you so much".
Please don't expose your children to dangerous people in the hope of hearing two words of kindness from a mean old man.
It is time to limit their exposure to him, and time for you to do so as well, imho.
Again, you are an adult. The ball is in your court. You will make your own choices and are responsible for them. You are no longer a victim. You are a grown woman with choices. Dad will soon exit his one miserable life. That's very sad. Those are his limitations. Be certain not to train this legacy into your childrens' heads.
We are replying to 99% of what you wrote here, not a vague last sentence. You know where you are going from here but that sentence doesn’t tell us. We can only know what you tell us.
”my husband and I feel so trapped, and so maligned. We do everything and have always included him and he is just arrogant and pitiful.”
And “I’ve been trained to serve the parents and it is time to stand up for myself, my husband, and kids.I know many others have such worse things to contend with.”
And we replied to your question which is the title of your post. I don’t understand why you are ignoring that you asked a question that we answered.
“should I CONTINUE to ask my kids to visit?”
Take what helps and leave the rest.
It also makes a better and more coherent read to have paragraphs. My eyesight isn’t great!
Grandpa has already made it a point he can't stand your children, but they visit anyway.
Not everyone deserves an end of life visit from family. Let it be.
Your sons should stop visiting him entirely. Why would they keep this person in their life? He obviously hates them and has even cut them out of his Will. They should forget about him. You should too. It's time for you to retire from being the family scapegoat and forget about it. Let your other siblings jump through hoops for their father because you need to be done.
If he still tries to make demands on you and your husband, oh well. You don't have to answer every phone call. You can limit your visits or even stop visiting. You can also demand that he write your kids back in his Will if he wants you to continue having anything to do with him. If he won't, then turn the POA over to one of your siblings. All you have to do is go down to the probate court and fill out papers. Then those papers go to the lawyer who made up the POA. Then you're done. I know someone who removed herself as her parents' POA because she just couldn't take their crap and asinine nonsense anymore. The court appointed a new one who was a lawyer.
The other option is to just cut off contact with your father for a while, or even permanently. Communicate only with the AL. It may do him good to sit alone and think about his life and how he treated some members of his family like you and your kids.
No. Tell your sons they are free to choose to visit or not with no judgement either way but to expect he is still the same person only probably worse now. Your sons are adults, don’t pass down the grooming.
If your kids are at the house and their grandpa is at the house they should greet him politely and if grandpa says nothing or starts in on them they are free to not say anything more and leave the room.
If you are going to visit your dad please do not "force" your kids to go visit.
If you have been "trained" to serve your parents I think it is time for you to do as you also say and stand up for yourself, your husband and kids. Would you tolerate this treatment of you or anyone else in the family from anyone else? My guess is no. If dad is cognizant you can tell him that you are not going to tolerate his behavior and if he is at your house and starts you can get his coat and bring him back to the facility. If you are at the facility and he treats you or says anything you can get your coat and leave telling him you are not going to listen to him when he is like that.
Your dad is in a facility where he is cared for. You are no longer a direct caregiver you are a care manager.
As for making special arrangements for Mr. Cranky don't do it, the facility has holiday events he can participate there, visit him once during the holiday and leave it at that. focus on you and your family, they come first.
Sending support your way.
My FIL was a narcissist. He didn't have a care in the world for anyone but himself. He would literally talk badly about his grandkids with them in the room. Universally, ALL of his grandkids stopped visiting.
Why? Because what difference did it make? If they visited, they had to listen to him talk badly about them and claim they never visited. He would be on the phone telling some random "friend" of his that his grandkids never visited with them right there in front of him. I was a fan of yelling that they were standing right in front of him and he wouldn't give them the time of day personally. But agreed with the kids that if he was going to lie about them, they should just make an honest man of him and stop visiting.
More than that, we didn't want to subject them to his treatment. When MIL was still alive, they barely paid him any attention and just basically enjoyed time with her. But once she was gone, we all agreed that we wanted to limit their contact to what THEY were comfortable with. And they were comfortable with basically holidays and a quick pass through to say hello at that.
You mention that you have been trained to "serve" the parents. That is quiet frankly, usually by design. By the time you realize its not ok, you've been conditioned to do it anyway.
My Narc FIL's downfall - was twofold. One...he underestimated his own children. He thought he had groomed them to bow down to him and serve him the rest of his life (and he really believed that - he actually TOLD my DH that he needed to leave me and our daughters. And come contribute to his care and contribute his salary to my FIL's household...) And for a long time, it was hard for them to push back and buck that training.
And two...he didn't know who his children had married. He expected myself and my BIL to shrink and do what he told us to do. He would literally yell, "I'm your father and I told you to do it". My absolute favorite thing to do was turn around and tell him that he wasn't MY father and that I didn't owe him a single thing, and just walk away and leave him to stew.
My point, is that you already know you don't have to serve them. You don't even have to be around them unless you CHOOSE to do so.
So my response to asking your kids to visit, is a resounding No. Let them decide. And then accept their decision.