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My 80 year old father had mitral valve replacement surgery on 2/2/22. We were told he would be in the hospital about a week and would be fine. Two days later, he had a major stroke. The doctors told my brother and I and my father that the stroke was minor and he would make a full recovery. We have since been told by different doctors that the stroke was major, in a very bad spot in the brain and that my father would die soon. He is failing to thrive now and has a lot of end-of-life signs, so he doesnt have long. But because of the stroke, he doesn't understand that. He keeps saying, "When I get home, I'm going to ..." "We should all go camping more this summer." "Do you want me to take a look at your car?" I don't know how to handle this! Should I tell him he's never going to go home? I tried asking him in a subtle way what his relationship with God was but he didn't understand. Should I even bother telling him he's going to die soon? Or should I just let him go on believing he's going to go camping again?

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dear OP,

i feel so sorry for you, for your father.

your question is very difficult. the answer is so dependent on what you/your family think is best (and if you can guess what your father would want).

personally, if i were about to die — i would want to be told. this way i can say/do what i feel is necessary.

but some people feel it might be cruel for the person to know they’re dying.

it is really, really up to you/your family/trying to guess what you think your father would want (know vs. not know).

huge, huge hugs from me.

just adding:
my instinct is, DON’T TELL HIM. let him enjoy/be happy with his plans what to do when he gets home. his body will fight to live. and he can be happy with his plans.
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I am very sorry about your father's situation.

Personally, I would not tell my father what is to come. My dad is a very straightforward man, he has always said when it's his time it's his time but during moments like these I feel many strong people become vulnerable. I would follow along with his conversations of plans. Let him go in peace and not instill a possible fear of death or the unknown.

But you know your father, you may know what he would want. It seems he has a hard time understanding things, meaning you may tell him his prognosis and he will continue to speak about the future.

I work in a hospital and have seen many patients accept death (who are aware) and many others struggle to accept it. There is no easy answer.

Peace and light to you and yours.
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bundleofjoy Apr 2022
i agree with every word you say, ineedsupport.

hugs to you OP in this very, very hard situation.
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So sorry for you and your Dad.

It’s such a personal decision. Whatever you and your family decide, you’ll make the right decision.

I wouldn’t tell him, in the same way Ineedsupport32 and Bundleofjoy replied. This way he can enjoy his plans of going home.
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poodledoodle Apr 2022
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but in Japan the policy in hospitals was that:

doctors wouldn’t tell patients, if they were going to die. It was believed to be better for patients not to know.

If the patient has family, the doctors would tell family. And family was discouraged to tell the patient.

Some families agreed with the policy. Some didn’t and thought the patient has a right to know.

I extend all my sympathies to you, Raerae123! Whatever you decide, is the right way. You love your Dad.
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If your father has lived as a person of faith, ask a chaplain to visit him. Hospital chaplains are trained and experienced in gauging a person's readiness to confront the end of life.

If you are concerned that his doctors have been wrongly withholding information from him, ask them why - they may have very good reasons for it, but it's their job to discuss his medical condition with him and to communicate what he needs to know in a way he can understand.

It is your job as his child (or, rather, your job as his children - I didn't mean to exclude your brother) to reassure him that he is loved, that you are grateful for his love, and that whatever may come all will be well. Do you know that the afterlife *doesn't* include camping and fixing the car? - because I don't know that. Whatever's on his mind, it's fine to take as his way of connecting with you.
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RaeRae- take your cue from your father. If he wants to talk camping and cars, go there. When he changes subjects, change with him.

He may or may not know he's dying. If he knows, he doesn't want to talk about it. Let him enjoy his remaining days the way he wants.
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poodledoodle Apr 2022
“He may or may not know he's dying. If he knows, he doesn't want to talk about it. Let him enjoy his remaining days the way he wants.”

Yes.
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My FIL had been diagnosed well into the final stages of an illness. He wanted treatment and for him, this meant an extended hospital stay. I talked to him on the phone after he was sent home, and he told me that by going through treatment he would survive. I didn't correct him. And apparently, no one had shared that the opposite was true.

It does no good to try to alter their beliefs, perceptions. And for what end, anyway?

Especially when someone is forgetful or doesn't understand...let it ride.

Smile and let it ride.

Unless you like being Don Quixote.

You might be surprised how easy it is once you commit to it. Might find it the easiest thing you've ever done.
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If because of the stroke he can't understand that he's failing to thrive and is showing signs of the end of life, then what do you think you'll explain to him to will suddenly make him understand? His brain is damaged, and words can't fix the cognition that's gone.

Make him comfortable, love on him, and make his transition a positive experience as much as you can.
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If the stroke has caused such damage that it has affected his thinking processes, telling him will serve no purpose. In reality, many people die without knowing it. The importance of this story, is that any major surgery, particularly open heart surgery after 80, is extremely risky. Many honest surgeons will refuse to accept elderly patients for major procedures, even for minor ones too. A prominent surgeon once told me that if the patient is too old, there is no difference in risk, whether the surgery is major o minor. Just the anesthesia alone can be very dangerous. Another consideration, is the benefits of a successful surgery. If the patient is too old, the benefits will be short lived since he/she might die from something else. I think that the obsession to prolong life for as long as possible, is causing more harm than good in our society. Another example, is prolonging the miserable lives of people with dementia. It's as bad for the patients as for the caregivers.
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Lex1Tex1T00 Apr 2022
Not all people with dementia live miserable lives. Other people who observe them may conclude that their lives are miserable, usually in comparison to their own. My brother has Dementia. My sister-in-law asked me to care for him so she, and their two sons, could visit her family of origin for four days/nights.

We had the BEST time, EVER! He couldn't find his words, and I'm quite a talker. I told him stories about our very large family after he joined the Army. He's about 20 years older than me. There were lots of stories to tell. We laughed SO much! His strongest recollection was living on a beach when he was small. He loved swimming every day. I consider our time together one of the biggest Blessings of my life.
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I am with TChamp. If the stroke was so serious it probably damaged the brain. I would just keep him comfortable and pain free. Just play along with him.
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As hard as it is for you, you should entertain his dreams.

Make plans, talk about past trips, etc.

If you are worried about his salvation, do not be subtle. Have a talk about it, none of us is promised tomorrow, so it is okay to be open and honest about this, it is his soul afterall. Get a pastor in there and lead him to Jesus if he hasn't already accepted HIM as Lord and Savior.

When my dad had his 1st heart attack, I walked into the hospital room and the first thing he said to me, I was the only believer in my family at the time, "Ya know kid, I hate to tell you there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel, hahaha." Grieved my spirit and my response was, "Ya know, maybe you were going the wrong way." It changed his life, he realized that he could be headed to hell and it made him exam his heart. He served The Lord for the rest of his days after his 2nd heart attack the very next day. He spent 4 days in a coma, it took them 6 minutes to incubate him and they fully prepared us for his demise. I wouldn't accept that my Merciful God would let my dad perish, he woke up 4 days later as though he had just gone to sleep the night before. All of his medical team said it was a miracle, it was. Don't lose faith for his soul or his healing.

Prayers for The Lord's guidance on how to deal with this.
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Please speak with the doctors, who know your Dad and his case, and with Social Services in the hospital. Dad may actually WISH to be in denial. If that seems the case then there is no reason he cannot remain right where he is. Take his own guidance. If he has questions then you can answer honestly and gently that this is a serious stroke, and no one knows how this is going to go. You can then ask him if there are last minute instructions or things he needs to tell you just "in case".
Most patients will tell YOU when they are dying. I think it doens't work well for you to tell them when they aren't ready. I remember a nurse friend telling her brother, who she cared for in his last days dying of AIDS, to "go toward the light" and he looked at her in dire shock (couldn't speak at that point) and with panic, as if to say "What the HECK! I am DYING????" She said she learned right then and there it isn't on her to tell someone when they are dying.Take this a day at a time. Be ready to follow Dad's lead. If he wants to dream of fishing, let him. Follow his lead.
If he asks "Well we ever go fishing" the answer is "I don't know Dad, but if we have to go without you I want you to know you will always be there with us wherever we are". Just follow his lead. Reassure him. Tell him you don't know, because, guess what, really you don't know, no matter WHAT the docs say. You have been informed how it "looks" now. Just take this a day at a time. My advice as a nurse is that it is the patient who decides.
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I haven't known any terminally ill people who didn't realize it at some level. That doesn't mean they want to discuss it or plan on it. If he wants to think about getting better and coming home, let him. Actually, some people make totally unexpected recoveries. I think you might enjoy the future activities he imagines as well, let him know how much you would enjoy doing those things when it is possible. It just isn't possible yet. At the same time, there might be things he would like to discuss with you if asked. You can tell him you realize what a hard time he is having, if he has any worries or fears he wants to discuss, let him know you are there to do so.
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Let him believe he's gonna go camping. He's still talking about living so let him live.
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If you worry about his faith and eternal destination, talk about that. No need to discuss the "when" of his passing since you do not know the day or time - only God does. While you're at it, consider this and ideal time to share with your dad how important your faith has been in your life. After that, just relax and enjoy the moments God allows you to have together.
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Don’t tell him he’s going die soon !!!
he obviously wants to live !!!
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NO, you should not tell him he's going to die soon. Why would you do that? Let him dream of camping and fixing your car and anything else he wants to do "when he gets home.". That may very well be his "relationship with God" right there.
It would be more helpful to talk about how great it would be to go camping again and to remember past camping times. Many people at the end of life talk about "going home" even if they are not consciously equating that to dying.
Yes, he may die soon, but maybe not today. Today he still has Today.
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I don't believe in telling people that they are going to die. Nobody knows for sure when any of us are going to die. However, this would be a good time to make sure that all of his affairs are in order and that you know his medical directives.
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Has hospice been discussed? If he is in pain they can help. They also have a chaplain who will visit him if requested. Sorry for this difficult situation.
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Put it this way. Would you want to be told, so every waking hour of every day is filled with that thought? I wouldn't. I would want to enjoy what I have in the moment. Spend the time you have chatting and reliving good memories, and telling him you love him.
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No one knows what it's like to be facing your own mortality until you are personally in that situation. I believe the person who is dying knows it on some level. I don't think you need to "tell him".

"Hey Dad, don't talk about fixing the car or going camping, because you're dying and it's not going to happen." Really. Would you want to be slapped in the face with that reality? Hope is eternal and if it gives your Dad some comfort in talking about future plans, go with it. No need to rain on his parade.

My Mom constantly asked to go home (to her house not her girlhood home) when she was in rehab for a broken leg. The trauma of surgery, anesthesia, movement to rehab (then longterm NH care), was too much for her to rationally comprehend what was happening to her. I believe she was having little TIA strokes while in the NH. I kept telling her when her broken leg healed, she could come home. I knew in my heart she would never recover from it and would be wheelchair bound until she died.

That said, she couldn't even weight bear on that leg for at least 8 weeks, so she sat in a wheelchair most days. Though we visited daily for HOURS on end, her mental capacity and reasoning (she had slight dementia before breaking her leg) skills suffered tremendously. Honestly, it was more stressful to deal with my brother's perception of our Mom's situation than with our Mom's.

So I just let her think that when she healed and got stronger, she could come home. Hope. Her 3 months in NH care was extremely stressful for me to get the care she deserved, so I did everything possibly to make her stay there pleasant. She ultimately had another stroke 2 months in and her final days were with me in her room 24/7 caring for and loving on her.

I can sleep at night knowing I did everything I could for her to ease her mind and make her comfortable. Isn't that what we all want in the end?
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What is the rush? If he is going to die he will die the same, whether he knows it or not. Let him deal with his problem the way he wants. Put yourself in his shoes.
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Why would you want to do that? The truth is that nobody knows how long he has, not even his doctors. One of our residents had been given the doom prediction three times, starting when she was 94. She lived to 103.

Your task now is to support him in his reality, so when he talks about going home go along with it. Tell him you'd be glad if he'd look at your car. + Go with his flow and ask for his suggestions for a camping trip. We're all going to die, but until that day, let's support LIFE, not death.
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I have read all the answers and feel for you and your father. Concerning his relationship to God, only he knows that. Each religion has its own beliefs in the afterlife, and when one does not have their mental cognition to understand what
is truth, then it's up to God. Show him love while you have him, no one knows the hour of our death. Let him have his dreams. And good thoughts sent to you and your family.
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Why not tell him that you love him and express gratitude for the things he did for you or the experiences he shared with you? Reminisce with him.

Let him speak his mind and don't judge what he says. Just accept it, strange as it might be to you.

Your truth may not necessarily match his truth at this time. Let him speak his mind and let it be.

It is normal that some people have end-of-life experiences that are unfathomable to family members or caretakers. Let him say what he wants and accept who he is during his inevitable transition. There are lessons in this experience that may surprise you. Good luck.
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Is he in hospice? If his life is ending soon, why trouble him by telling him that he’s dying. Let him rest. Go along with his plans and ideas for the days. It is God who will determine the exact day he will leave. Who knows? Maybe he’ll even live to fulfill what he’s planning.
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I think it would be a gift to your father not to remove his hope. He may realize his days are numbered and not yet be ready to admit it. I wish you both peace
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I have been in that situation, a few times in the last 4 years with my Dad, so I can tell you how I personally handled it, but each situation is unique. It is SO tricky when the loved one is also dealing with any sort of cognitive issues at the same time, because it is harder to to know what is truly going on with their own thought process, so having those types of talks, sometimes needs to be done gradually, instead of having a scheduled, "we need to talk" time.

With your dad asking if he can look at your car, and bringing up the idea of camping, it sounds like he may have an idea that something is going on, and may be facing the reality of needing to live and appreciate what time he has left on this planet, and spend it with the people he loves. With him asking you if he can look at your car, he might also be looking to see how you respond, to gauge how serious his current condition is. So he might be in denial, but at the same time, it sounds like he is possibly seeking validation from your responses, instead of directly asking.

Thinking back, I can now see that my Dad was doing the same sort of thing, and I truly struggled with how to respond, just like you. I did NOT
want to say the words, "Dad, you're dying." What I ended up doing was responding to him by saying that I really would love to go camping, and yes, I would most definitely want you to check out my car, but before we can do any of that, we have to focus on YOU and your health right now. I told him the doctors were saying things weren't looking that great at the moment, but if he was able to show improvement, maybe we could start making some plans to do something adventurous. I also factually told him what his body was doing, according to what the doctors were telling me, but I didnt directly tell him he was dying. I would then tell him that if he feels like he can show improvement, we could work on some little goals and build from there, and hopefully we would be able to surprise those doctors, and that I am there for him if he wanted to talk about how he was feeling. I feel like that allowed him to have hope, and yet at the same time it helped him realize that it was a serious situation which needed attention. After some time, his thought process of mortality started to move through the different stages, and eventually he would start talking realistically about his future, and it helped when it came time later to talk about how the doctors were suggesting hospice care I always made sure he knew it was the doctors saying this, and not me.

He was unique though, because, he ended up actually doing that one goal of surprising the doctors. Initially, he wasn't supposed to make it through the night, and then they said maybe a couple of days, and then he got to the point of being discharged, but was told it would be weeks, possibly a few months. But a year later? He actually graduated from hospice! He continued on for another couple of years, but once he made another goal (his 79th birthday), he started to rapidly decline, and ended up back in hospice. This time, it was definitely different, and we both knew time was running out. He wasn't able to communicate well, but I tell ya what, he did end up reaching one more goal. The last time we spoke with full eye contact, I was telling him what day it was, and that in five days, it would be March 18th, which was another significant day for both of us (it would have been my first born's/ his first grandchild's, 30th birthday. She died from Leukemia when she was four). He held onto our eye contact for a few moments longer in acknowledgement, but that was the last time he was alert with me. Hospice said it would be hours, maybe a couple of days at that point.

Around 8am, on the 18th, I woke up to my phone ringing, and it was that final call I was dreading. He peacefully died at 7:55am, on March 18th, and I have no doubt my first born and my mom were there in spirit to welcome him, 'back home'. ❤️

Hang in there! 🙏
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Personally, I believe a person has the right to know the truth, but there are times when it would not be helpful. I never met my husbands mother. She died of a brain tumor a few months before I met him, and he was only 20 years old. Nobody ever told her it was going to be fatal, she apparently just came to realize it, but they never talked about it. She was only in her 50's. If that had been me, I would have wanted to know so I could say my goodbyes to everyone.
Now, there is my mother, who is 89 years old and has dementia. She talks constantly about what we are going to do next summer; going to the beach, going fishing, whatever. We will do none of these things because she can hardly walk to the car. We don't tell her we won't do any of these things, she is unable to grasp reality, EXCEPT, she talks often about how God has been so good to her and she can hardly wait until He makes us all young again. Her faith in God is the constant and the most important anyway.

My thought here is that only you can assess what is best, but I would like to encourage you to read some Bible verses to him to prompt his thoughts toward God. It might prompt him to talk about how he feels. God bless you, this end of life stuff is so hard, and we are often blindsided at the twists and turns.
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It's a sad situation but I would not tell him he will die soon. At 80 yrs old he knows that life is not forever here on earth. I think it would be disheartening to remind him the end is near--if he were 50 I could accept that he would like to say good bye and get affairs in order. I have a yr. old pacemaker and I think about it failing all the time-although I'm told I probably have at least another decade. I am near your fathers age so I hope he accepts what comes. Prayers for your family!
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I have been told twice that my mother will die soon. She is still here yet compromised. I tried to tell her certain facts but she literally seems disinterested.

I am not negating your situation and the time left. I would not tell that news if not asked. I just would take each day at a time.

People tell me that I cannot know how I will feel towards the end of my life but I absolutely know that I would not want to continue living if I could not walk. I would not want to not be able to use the toilet. I would not want to be constantly catheterized. I would not want my family to endlessly walk the halls of a nursing home and witness all that transpires there. I would not want them to be me.

I hope the end comes for your family in a peaceful manner and you will know that there is no point to endless suffering.
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