Follow
Share

So my sister currently has power of attorney over our mother who is in assisted living with dementia after a stroke. In order for her to qualify for Medicare two houses and all of her assets were transferred to my sister. She is using our mother's account social security etc to pay my mother's rent at an assisted living facility. The rest of the family is pitching in a bit every month as well.


In order to cover expenses me and my sister had a garage sale and sold some of our mothers belongings. We also had her home appraised by real estate and intend to sell the house. Furthermore some of our mother's stocks have been sold.


Now our brother is pissed apparently and has talked to a social worker and lawyer. He has also been in contact with our mother alot trying to get on her good side and telling her he is going to get her out of assisted living and take her home. As some of his past actions have caused him to fall out of favor with her.


He had told her that we sold all of her belongings and are stealing her houses, and she seems to be buying it. And he is trying to convince my grandma to revoke my sister's POA and assign it to him. She seems to be considering it.


He is accusing us of elderly abuse for selling some of her belongings without her consent, transfering assets, and claiming the conditions at assisted living are unacceptable.


My understanding is that it is difficult to revoke and reasign POA when one has dementia. But I am worried because that seems to be our mothers current wishes and our brother is not trustworthy.


Basically I just need to know if my sister and I have done anything wrong. And does our brother have a case regarding POA

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
O my goodness, its not that you are doing anything wrong, you are doing it all wrong! As others have said you should have an attorney do it for you. First, all of Mom's assets need to pay for her care, not yours. I don't know why you are "pitching in". If Mom's assets were transferred to sister, then sister needs to pay, and honestly brother did the right thing for contacting a lawyer. Mom's money pays for her care, and if she transferred money within the last 5 years she will not be approved for Medicaid until all that is sorted it out and satisfied. Your brother absolutely has a case if Mom's funds were handled inappropriately.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
We were worried about losing the houses, as our moms income and benifits was not enough to cover her care.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
I would be pissed if I were asked to chip in, while sister is holding assets.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Are trying to get mom qualified for Medicaid?

Medicare is available to everyone over 65, but it does not pay for long term care. Make sure that you all understand the very substantial differences between these two programs.

As to Medicaid, in most states, there is a 5 year look back period for financial records. Assets must not have been transferred or gifted. A house, a vehicle and most personal belongings are not "countable" assets for Medicaid purposes.

Are you working with an eldercare attorney on the Medicaid application? Or at least the SW at the AL to understand what is a countable asset and what sorts of transfers are allowed?
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
Yes, she is doing as she was advised. We applied for medicaid and she was denied due to her assets. We talked with an SW, she told us to transfer her assets re apply and see what happens. Worst case scenario we would have to wait the entire 5 years.

Her assets include 2 houses, one of which is a rental that we had appraised
(0)
Report
It sounds like your sister is committing medicaid fraud. That's a serious crime, and you could be considered an accessory if you willingly participate in hiding assets. Their are both civil and criminal penalties for such crimes.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
That sounds bad, I was unaware, what would you suggest as the best course of action to avoid or limit legal trouble
(0)
Report
Get an elder law attorney to advise. Your mom can own one house and one car. Assets can not just be transferred to sister's name to get mom qualified. Mom has assets to sell and pay for her care. Everything must be sold at market value to be used for mom

Is there a reason you think that government programs, that are paid into by me and everyone else, should pay for mom's care?

If I were your brother I would be calling Adult Protective Services, the police, the district attorney, and yes, an elder law attorney to have guardianship and conservatorship assigned to a third party to have everything you and sis have done audited. From what you say, emergency guardianship and conservatorship may be sought and easily awarded, by a court, to APS. Mom needs protection from you and sis. What you are doing is illegal and a felony.

Hopefully you and sis can get this fixed, everything undone, without long term implications.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
We were told by a social worker that her assets had to be under 20k and that the state rarely sells things at market value. Though maybe we should have been advised by a lawyer rather than a social worker. We were told to transfer assets and re apply.

Third party having control might be the way to go, as our brother is the last one we would want in control. There is ample reason he was never given POA in the first place.

Previously our brother couldn't even be bothered to call our mom, now that he can't work due to corona he seems to be in constant contact.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
First, sorry that people seem to get worked up over this, but there are some members that wish they had money for LOs to be placed in LTC. Medicaid has income caps. Some LOs make just over that cap and can't qualify. This is something you should check out. Does Moms SS exceed the income cap.

Your sister was wrong. Whether she is aware of it or not, she is hiding assets. This is fraud. No transferring of monies or property is allowed in the Medicaid five year look back. These transfers will need to be reversed. The houses need to be sold at fair market value. Same with cars. The household stuff...if there are any antiques they needed to be appraised and when sold, money goes towards Moms care. Regular household stuff can be sold or given away and the money put to Moms care.

Your brother is right. And no one should be "pitching in" because sister should be using Moms money for her care. Medicaid allows one house and a car. The second house would have to be sold as any xtra cars. Once the money is spent down, then you can apply for Medicaid. Which should be when ur getting about 3 months from running out of money. Be aware Medicaid does not regularly pay for ALs. In my state, they may pay after at least paying privately for 2 yrs. Some states have vouchers. So u may want to ask the AL if they except Medicaid.

You need a lawyer at this point and one very well versed in Medicaid. You may have to undue what has been done or at least show the money is there for Moms care. You may be able to use Moms money for this. Be aware too, that Moms SS will be needed to offset the cost of her care. There will be no money to keep up a house. Even though Mom is allowed to have a house, Medicaid needs to be aware of anyone living there and it can't be rented without their knowledge.

Believe me, your sister is not the only person who has no idea how Medicaid works. I think when people are setting up retirement planning, explaining basic Medicaid needs to be included. I was lucky, my Mom lived from pay to pay. The money used for private pay was Dads life insurance. Her house sold after her death. I was able to pay her Medicaid lean from the proceeds.

Good luck and come back and tell us how things worked out. We all learn from others experiences.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
We understand and intend to wait out the 5 years, it has been 10 months since assets were transfered. After being denied medicaid we were advised to transfer assets re apply and see what happens. Best case scenario she would be approved worst case, she would be denied again, and that is what happened.

Of the top of my head I believe our moms SS income is 780 a month, her her total incomes are 3400. All of which is going to her care.

Medicaid will partially cover this particular AL, though they have a limit on how many they will accept at a time.
(0)
Report
See 2 more replies
You need to sit down with a lawyer who specializes in Medicaid planning. (I assume you are trying to qualify your mom for Medicaid.). Transferring the houses out of her name sounds like a big mistake. Possibly you can fix it.

Medicaid would have allowed your mom to keep a certain amount in home equity even if the chances of her returning to the home were remote. Once you sell, all that money will be considered available for her care and Medicaid won't pay a cent for her care until it has been spent down. This is true even if the sale goes through with your sister as the owner. (Unless she transferred these houses into her own name over five years ago.)

You need to talk to a lawyer. You and your sister are making some big mistakes.

And for what it's worth, the only one who can assign POA is your mom. If she is no longer capable to do that, your brother's only recourse is to file for conservatorship or guardianship with the court. Your grandma cannot revoke anything.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
The properties were transferred to my sisters name in July of last year. We applied got denied re applied after transfering property and were denied again. As we understand we now have to wait out the 5 years,

As of right now our moms income between SSI, rental home and everything is $3400 a month, her rent at assisted living and memory care is $5200. We are currently making up the difference, which is why we are looking into selling the house and have sold stocks.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
So you're transferring multiple houses around the family and then trying to wait out the five year period to get her on Medicaid and stick the taxpayers with the bill?

Lovely.

Really hope you fraudsters get caught, prosecuted, and made an example of.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Louisxl1 May 2020
Didn't realize it was fraud, any advice on how to undo anything illegal we may have done?
(0)
Report
See 2 more replies
Louis; the rental the the cds/iras etc are now is sister's name?

You are REALLY going to need a Medicaid savvy eldercare attorney to unravel this. I believe that there is such a thing still as a Medicaid compliant annuity that mom's brokerage account could be used to buy (of course there is a tax hit if she is taking monies out of tax advantaged accounts..)
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
gladimhere May 2020
If she and sis don't need a criminal attorney. Just, plain unbelievable. Maybe sis even manipulated Louis into thinking this was ok?
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
I sure hope that this is all a misunderstanding of what the SW said.

Many facility and Area Agency on Aging SWs are great sources of advice about Medicaid and they DO advise folks about the regs.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Alicew234 May 2020
They do and they should tell people the asset and income limits and where they can get free help filling out the forms. They really, really shouldn't say "Move assets and apply again." That's insane advice. And "What could possibly go wrong? Worst case scenario you get denied again." That's not the worst case scenario by a long shot.

There were probably tax consequences for the sister's actions that they didn't consider too. Some stuff just isn't a DIY project.
(1)
Report
See All Answers
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter