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It’s been a few years since I’ve been on. My mother had lived with me in my state. She had got me to the point that I considered ending my life because of all the constant misery. I quit my job for 3 months and moved her up north near my brother. She eventually hated where she moved and had confrontation with the person running the place. My brother has a very demanding job that doesn’t give him much time to spend hrs at a doctors appointment. He moved her to a assisted living facility that is brand new. It has lots of people… Drs, nurses, 3 meals, physical therapy everything she needs so he doesn’t have to worry when he is out of town. I have recently learned that she has early symptoms of dementia… that she says is not true. My brother has done backward flips to get this completed. Everyday I talk to her she just continues to put him down and complains about what he is not doing. She always wants me to take her side to where it becomes an argument. She also lives negatively constantly living in the past and all the wrong doings to her. No one in the family likes to call her or visit because she causes conflict. There is just so much more to this story. My brother was supposed to visit her today and take her to eat. That didn’t happen because she called him a traitor and he didn’t love her and that she was going to move and she has only been in her new apartment for a month. This event was caused by him mistaking that she could get her pain medication thru the doctors at the facility and not return to the pain Dr. He wanted to simplify and make sure she always had access to her meds in case he was out of town for work. I was the bad horrible person when she lived with me and now since she has lived close to him he is now the bad guy. She loves her children… but she claims she can say and do whatever she wants to her kids because she is the mom. Today I had to tell her I love her and hang up on her. The conversation was leading to an argument. I am exhausted mentally from listening to all the negativity that I listen to for hrs each day on the phone. I love her but she is never happy. I don’t know what to do for her

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Your brother's demanding job has probably saved him from your mother's constant insanity. The only thing you can do is walk away and leave her be. She has your number if she can't be nice then don't take her calls don't visit. New rules now. You are an adult that she is relying on. You were not born into this world to be her slave or punching bag. Most likely she won't change or it will be for a small amount of time and on her part absolute misery for her to control, but this is not your problem. She lived her whole life treating you like this. Explain to your brother and move on. I had to do the same. It is hard but with therapy you start to realize you never asked to be born to these parents, we didn't get to choose they did. If you are not willing to treat another human being you bring into this world with absolute love and kindness and support that outweighs your own selfish needs you should of kept your legs closed and your pants zipped.
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She clearly has issues. Try to divert her mind, remind her of the good things around her. Talk to her about something that makes you laugh, do you remember? Keep calls short. Try to end on happy note. Don't feel bad if you can only do it for 5 minutes. Walk outside for a breath of fresh air. People can mentally change and develop depression. See doctor about possible change in medications. Hang in there.
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Hello Marymo67. Life as you describe is sadly typical of dealing with parents who are no longer able to take care of themselves. Having lost the control they once had over their bodies, minds, and lifestyle appears to create an unhappy bitterness they have no desire to overcome. Some elders are very sweet and appreciative, but many are full of anger and do not easily accept the limitations imposed upon them by age and infirmity. It is a struggle as a caregiver to not let the negativity, repetition, and demands, get to you. There are no Magic answers. Your brother and yourself must find a path to accepting you are doing your best, and that your best is remarkable and comes from a place of love. Mom’s complaints are not going to be resolved by another move, or better care. She is simply unhappy with how her life is going at this stage. She likely wants whatever abilities and control she used to have. Of course, this is not possible. Unless she wants to accept her circumstances and continue to find joy in her life in new ways, she is not going to change regardless of decisions you or your brother make. It is possible she will never accept or move forward. In the meantime, try to accept the situation for what it is, and resolve to behave differently for your own children if and when you find yourself acting like her as the years advance. My husband and I are researching our future as we are approaching 70 and do not want our child to be miserable if and when we become disabled.
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Way2tired May 2023
I love this answer!!
I recently had to explain to flying monkeys that came to visit my FIL that he will never be happy , he doesn’t want to. He has dementia and would rather stay in his room and not socialize with any of the other residents at AL. A year ago he lost his wife and got put in AL in a months time . His life totally changed and these visitors expect him to take a happy pill and go to activities and get over his grief.
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Oh my gosh. I found some one with similar issues. My Mom is never happy and most of the time it is my fault.
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"love is willing to work to benefit another" just be her anchor, she is under attack and you can offer light. your positivity will never be someone else's and sometimes caregiving empowers us to find our joy. constantly. just looking up at the sky makes me smile, breathe, and know i am not alone. i have to bring what she cannot. try tao te ching zen for simple joy that will pervade her being i your presence you have the power of peace and the peace of power bc death and dying are a process https://zenhabits.net/three-pillars-ty/?email=n28973045%40gmail.com
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BurntCaregiver May 2023
@Chevalier

Tell me does it get very cold where you are so far up on the moral high ground?

"Love is willing to work to benefit another". Love does not mean becoming a martyr to someone else's neediness. Love is not measured by how deep we are willing to wallow in another's misery.
What about loving yourself? Is that not important as well?
If being around someone's toxic and negative behavior has a terrible effect on you, avoid that person.
Let me tell you something, my friend. I was a caregiver mostly to elderly for 25 years.

I have worked for elderly people who downright sparkled at every activity in AL or MC. Elders who I had a ball with every day. Going shopping, out to eat, movies, spa days. I even had one old-timer who I used to take to the casino twice a month. He'd drop me a hundred bucks to play at the tables with and then he'd pay for lunch. If he won, I'd get a nice gift. Like a Loius Vuitton handbag (that I still use) or super high-end cosmetics. We used to go to the track too because we both loved the ponies.

The second certain people would come around usually one or all of their grown kids, they would change and become totally different people. It's like flipping a light switch on and off.
They would go from having fun and being the life of the party to the negativity, the gloom and doom, misery, and then take their seat on the pity pot with the "woe is me" bullcrap. I've seen this behavior many times.
It's a performance.

They want their adult kids to feel bad because they believe it will keep them at the center of their lives so they can control and manipulate them. If the grown kids think mom or dad is enjoying life, they won't feel so guilty.
Maybe they won't sacrifice and neglect their own lives, careers, families, and homes as much by trying to find ways to make mom or dad less negative and miserable.
Most of the time what this behavior does accomplish is to drive their grown kids further and further away from them.

So not everyone is "under attack". Also, many elderly people just enjoy being miserable. Complaining is a form of sport and entertainment for many.

I bow to the superior wit and wisdom of one of this forum's members who so rightly said,

'Don't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm'.

Respect...
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I told my mother that she chose the man to be my dad, and I didn't want to hear anything more bad about him. When she would start in on him, I would remind her and leave or hang up the phone, which ever was appropriate.
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BurntCaregiver May 2023
I haven't seen you commenting around here for a while MaryKathleen. Good to hear from you.

You're also right. Never indulge the complaining. End the call or the visit.
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Wow! First you are very fortunate to have such a caring brother. He is now doing his fair share of caring for your mom. ( my brother has been MIA and just an occasional visitor for the past 10 years). Your Mom is fortunate to be living in an Assisted Living Facility. Not many can afford that. She is blessed she is not in a nursing home.
There is absolutely NO excuse for the abusive behavior. Illness is not an excuse to abuse others, especially those trying to help you. A few suggestions: (1) to preserve your own mental health, you may want to distance yourself; (2) you can keep putting up healthy boundaries like when you ended the conversation when she started complaining and hung up but explain to her why you are doing this; (3) get a social worker / family therapist on board to have a session with you and your mom and with your brother and your mom. Your Mom needs to see that her behavior is damaging and toxic to others. Growing old is very hard … very challenging. But she is blessed to have you and your brother. She needs to see that and not have such a self-entitled attitude. Although she is sick and older, life is not “ all about her “. It sounds like you have had a lifetime of this from when you were very young. Take it from someone who :lost her health, aged 20 years in the past 10 years, is now struggling with finances, has a home that is in severe disrepair, and is suffering from severe anxiety to the point I have trouble doing anything for myself. In my opinion, you need to take care of yourself and if that means not being there for her and her abuse, then that is what that means. But you need to let her know and set some boundaries. A family counselor will help with this. Good luck and God bless.
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Way2tired Apr 2023
Cobi0417. If this is the mother’s lifetime behavior, and/or she has dementia , it is very unlikely that #3 suggestion is going to be helpful . Imho, just in general at this age , the Mom’s behavior won’t change much . Calling her out for her behavior may only be poking a beehive and make mom more angry and toxic . (Been there done that , hoping it would stop the abuse ). The mother already feels like the victim . Although it is true , I doubt the mother will see that she is blessed that she has caring children who have found a nice place for her to live , or that she is fortunate to be able to be in a nice new AL. Imho, Based on OP description of how toxic mother’s behavior is, mom will always feel entitled and will not see how damaging and toxic her behavior is , nor will she stop being self-centered . I also aged poorly and have an anxiety disorder and had to rebuild my life from dealing with a similar situation. For OP to bare her soul in a group therapy session to this mother to try to enlighten the mother will only poke the hive and queen bee Mom will be angry and do more damage to her daughter . OP says mom claims she can do anything and say anything to her kids because she’s the mom . I doubt that attitude will change in the mother either . My advice is , I wouldn’t even try # 3 suggestion . Daughter needs and deserves to focus on her own health and not try a doomed plan to fix the old woman’s behavior that will only serve to subject the daughter to more abuse .
I wish you well in trying to improve your own health and rebuild/take back your own life. It is difficult , I’ve been there .
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I don't have any answers for you, but I will say I feel your pain and I'm sorry.

This describes my mom to a T and she doesn't have any dementia, and we live together. Nothing I do makes her happy, and if I do something that does make her happy, she turns into a "it's about time, I deserve this!"

She was never like this until the last few years. My brother checked out a long time ago, because he has his own issues he don't wont to admit to. I could write a book.

I hope things get better for you!
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Marymo67: No one can make their mother become 'Suzy Sunshine' if they have acrimony in their veins. She cannot nor should say hurtful things simply because she is the mom. My own mother said "I can say whatever I want because I'm old." "No, you can't mom." Her - "You're Hitler." "Mother, THAT will be enough of the nonsensical stuff."
Let the AL take care of your mother. Period.
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Sounds like my mother. I did caregiving from a distance. Once mother couldn't manage in her own place she went ALs. After a few months she didn't like them and criticized the staff, I moved her several times until I told her if she needed to move again it would be to a different kind of facility. That ended up being a geriatric psychiatric hospital where she was evaluated and finally agreed to medication. They placed her in a facility for seniors with mental health issues.

I only saw mother a few times a year and once her dementia progressed I stopped answering phone calls. They were too crazy and upsetting.

You don't have to listen to all that negativity every day. It harms you and it just enables her. You can't fix her, you can only fix yourself and I think it is time you started looking after your own emotional state,

I don't mean that unkindly. You are suffering. I suspect your mum enjoys being unhappy and making other people unhappy,

You can limit contact with your mother. Let phone calls go to voice mail. If she gets angry that is her problem - her feelings are hers to deal with, Your feelings are yours to look after.

You are not alone. Please start looking after you. Focus on your own needs not on your mother's wishes. Do some things that you enjoy. Take a walk, go out for a meal, have an evening with a friend, buy yourself some flowers...

Be good to you and take some space from your mother. She is being cared for by others which is for the best.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2023
Golden, you knew the power of stepping back. If we step forward we will be harmed by other people’s behavior. Stepping backwards protects us during these times. It really is the best thing to do for everyone.
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It is a very difficult situation, emotionally and psychologically for you.
Give yourself a lot of compassion and acknowledgment for what you've done and what you want to do.

Firstly, you need to understand what dementia is and what it does to a person. Their brain chemistry has changed / is in the process of changing.

* You are (wanting to) talking to your mother as if she doesn't have dementia.
* You need to learn how to talk with her; it is learning an entirely new language / way of communication.
- I urge you to google TEEPA SNOW. She is one of the country's leading experts on dementia and has many tools to support family / care providers in how to be with / communicate with / work with people / family inflicted with dementia. She has webinars and more. I studied webinars with her for 1-1/2 years (for my work).
* Watching Teepa be with / communicate with a person with dementia is like watching a ballet star or a basketball player making a 3 pointer. She is magnificent. No matter how much experience I have (10+ years working with elders w dementia, I always learn something new from her) - and in awe of her abilities. Something as simple as making eye contact, being at eye level is huge... being aware of your voice / tone of voice... things most of us wouldn't think about she brings to the forefront.
- I find that no matter how severe the dementia, people respond to being respected and loved. When I tell my client that I love her - she lights up. Same when I compliment her "Oh, you look beautiful today," she smiles with delight. Even though she talks gibbership to me, we connect on a very human level. I could almost cry thinking of this level of compassion, intimacy, caring, bonding we have.

* When you need to end the conversation, tell her that you are hanging up. (Perhaps you do say this). If it was me, I would say, I need to go now mom. I love you and understand that you feel xxx (reflect some of her words back to her. I'll call you soon (or tomorrow ... or whenever). I am going to hang up now. Then do it. This is ending a call, with compassion.

Part of this transition requires family to:
1) work together - be on the same page so mother gets messaging.
2) Set boundaries - stick to them
3) Communicate with reflective listening, i.e., "I hear you saying xxx." You are not agreeing or judging, you are simply letting her know that you hear her - that you are listening to her. SHE WILL FEEL VALIDATED.
4) Be compassionate, understanding she is afraid and losing her independent / ability to care for herself as she did / as she thinks she can / as she no longer can.
- Yes, your bro can't spend hours at an MD appt - this is when you hire a caregiver to take her... sit with her ... and possibly go into the appt with her (I do) - to take notes (if this works out).

TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.
* You must care for yourself otherwise you will be / feel depleted and as you say ... "She had got me to the point that I considered ending my life because of all the constant misery."
- This is heartbreaking to read although understandable. No one can be on caring for another 24/7 and not care for their own health needs: eating healthy, getting exercise, enough sleep, creating supportive networks, and yes - a respite / making time to have fun.
- As you can, hire others to help you. You cannot continue on like this without massive negative health repercussions to yourself - and you do not want to go down that road.

* Keep a personal journal.
* Make a daily plan/commitment: What you will do for yourself.
* Once you set boundaries (with your mom), you will find more equanimity and balance in yourself.
* Get into therapy, even short term, if possible. You need an advocate to support you. This journey with you mom will continue and she will continue to decline so you need to get your plans in order (with your brother).

Slowly, learn to re-wire your automatic thinking / behavior. Be gentle with yourself. Gena / Touch Matters
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HopeCalmPeace Apr 2023
Ver helpful post. Thank you for sharing! My mom is negative as well and understandably as she has lost so much….vision, mobility, spouse, hope, etc etc. I imagine that I wouldn’t be ‘Suzy Sunshine’ either under those circumstances. We’ve hired a companion to spend time with mom as she is lonely. The companion brings fresh compassion, conversation and distraction from her struggles. We wish we had done that sooner.
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I feel for you , having been in a similar situation . I commend you for getting off the phone when the toxicity started. Now you need to not be on the phone for hours each day . Limit calls, limit length of calls. “I have to go , I have an errand to run “. When she is being toxic . “ I’m sorry you are upset , but I have to go now . I have an appointment “. Don’t answer the phone .
Limit visits . With her personality , she will not be happy no matter how often you visit . Go no contact when you need to . I didn’t see my mother for 6 weeks one summer . My brother only saw her once a year .

Your mother is being taken care of at a beautiful new place , she has what she needs . I had a smart friend that told me I didn’t have to give my mother what she wants ( which was for me to come everyday to berate me ) just make sure she has what she needs. Which your mother has at her new home . If you need to bring her something you can drop it off with a staff member to bring to her. My mother used to sit by the front door waiting to ambush me . So I used to call the front desk and they would send someone out to take items from me and they would put them in my mother’s room .
When she starts with trying to pit you against your brother , you play dumb when you can . “I didn’t know anything about that “. Don’t bring up the dementia , there is no point . Be prepared for the dementia to be fueling her behaviors even more . She has no filter left . That’s what the doctor told me about my Mom

Your Mom is not living with you . Get back to living your life. Do you have friends where you live now ? Or would you want to move back to where you were living before ??
I had trouble restarting my own life after placing my diagnosed narcissistic dementia stricken mother in assisted living . I forgot how to live my own life . My life had revolved around my mother for so long, she had had a stroke years earlier . I was limiting visits because she was so toxic . I read up on narcissism , setting boundaries .

My sister told me I did more for my mother than I had to. My sister had gone to very limited contact with my mother for years . She was very helpful in convincing me that it was OK to rebuild my life and not feel guilty about it no matter how much my mother told me that I “ dumped her”. My sister told me that making my mother happy isn’t my job , it should not have been my job ever and I had spent years trying to do that with no results .
HAVING YOUR MOM PLACED IS THE
FREEDOM YOU DESERVE.
You are not responsible for your mother’s happiness , nor will anything you do make her happy.
See your primary doctor for checkup if you haven’t . Take care of yourself.
Try a therapist . It wasn’t for me for very long , talking about it face to face with a stranger made me more upset . I hand wrote most of my feelings on paper , I would then burn them in the fireplace .
I did better just reading on my own, figuring out what helped me. I still have an anxiety disorder , I still journal on my own. I wrote letters to my mother ( that I never gave her ) just to get my feelings out . I’m starting to write letters to my children for them to find and read when I am gone .
Go on a vacation , have a “me “ day at the mall or a spa .
How about a hobby ?
Whine to us here. It’s anonymous ,
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This is so common with dementia. The patient will often turn on family ,embers and or caregivers.

Theres nothing you can do to make her happy. Her mind is broken. There is no cure or treatment that does anything much.

Denial is also a big part of dementia.

Quit beating yourself up and learn to live with your mom as she is. She is unable to change. Now, if she is abusive, you nor your brother have to see her.
However if you do see her, you just have to basically agree with whatever she says, try to redirect the conversation or leave.

It’s so sad because you want things to go smoothly, but dementia just doesn’t work like that. She can’t get better…you and your brother have to get more tolerant or avoid her. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but it’s the truth.
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It really is sad that so many of us have the same issues/problems with our family member, especially moms. Me too! Took her yesterday to the Doc’s office to get the UTI labs done. Sure enough that’s what is going on!
But in the 3 days before I could get her to cooperate enough to get her there, I was yelled at the top of her lung, repeatedly, that I was a disappointment, a liar, a b*tch, all because “I want to go home” “don’t you understand!?!”. She has hearing loss, vision loss, mild cognitive impairment, memory loss, trouble walking, osteoporosis, hypertension…
She went so far as to leave the house when I wasn’t aware (1st time for that) walk down the street to cross the busy street to the high school on the other side and ask the boys in the gym parking lot to call the police for her help to have them come take her home. The officer that came was a very polite compassionate individual and I know how much they dislike handling these types of situations.
He was given all the POA paperwork and tried to convince mom that she should let me take care of her and if she leaves the house again without telling me, she would be a missing person.
Anyway I’m in the same boat as many on here. I’m working on getting some respite care for myself, mostly because I don’t like the person I am becoming without the help, and I’ve only been at this six months since bringing her into my life/home/world. She had planned for at least the last 10 years that my husband and I would move into her house to take care of her. We repeatedly told her that we did not want to move back to SoCal.
She could never understand why and would not accept our answer.
So it has finally come to her being with us or go to a facility. That will be the next step, but for now we will continue to work to keep her here. I left her home at 18 and I’m 66 now. I love my mom, but I can’t say we have been friends too much of the time. She was a taskmaster with my father until she divorced him and her 4 children. We remember her saying “I don’t like your attitude”, and “who promised you a rose garden?” When she starts to complain to me about wanting to go home, I remember her words. We don’t have other options, my sister died 6 years ago, my brothers aren’t in a position to help and I’m the oldest. TaDa, that’s me, the responsible one!
I’ve read so many of the post here, my mother looks like the poster child of this site for the uncooperative dementia patient. I appreciate the advice, encouragement, and loving support I get from special folks here. Ya’ll know who those people are!
All we can do is keep on keeping on, pray and LISTEN for when the LORD sends us an angel and answers. He sent me both yesterday. Praising Him!
My husband and I have a saying we heard, have come to live by and it often;
” This sucks, Praise Yah!”
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Sounds familiar. Add in a bit of a pain pill addiction (and the fear of not getting the meds .. which was my Mom’s singular focus at times) and it just gets crazy in a hurry.

Here is the bottom line. No walking on eggshells or worrying about upsetting mom. Mom doesn’t care about upsetting you or brother. You can’t make her happy. Sounds like she’s never been happy.

She can’t execute on any wild idea she has about moving. Who’s going to find her a new place and pack her and physically move her stuff? Not you and not your brother. You actually have more power than you realize. You both do. I tell my Mom every time I talk to her, which isn’t often anymore because it’s awful, “I’m not the audience for you to bash brother.” “I see this differently and am not going to have this conversation with you.” Then you hang up. It’s not your (or your brothers) problem to solve. It’s her problem to solve. You do not have to attend every argument you are invited to. You don’t have to call her. You don’t have to answer the phone. What’s she going to do - call the police and tell them you won’t answer her calls? Not a thing. Do not let her rob you of more of your life. There’s no upside. None. Only you can make this stop by not engaging and not allowing her to be awful to you.
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Well, I can blow multicolor sprinkles and magical unicorn puffs of dust in your ear or I can tell you the truth: I'll choose the truth since I had a mother like yours for 64 years. She lived in AL for a REASON. I forfeited a big inheritance to keep her living in AL for a REASON. She had to pay others to put up with her particular brand of personality disordered nonsense (& dementia) bc I as an only child was certainly not going to after growing up w the dysfunction for 18 years! Sheesh.

Some things are unfixable. Including but not limited to ugly personality traits and disorders, depression, gossiping, bad mouthing others, chronic complaining, insisting on blaming others for all of our OWN mistakes, refusing to take responsibility for actions, lying, Confabulating stories to make others look bad and ourselves look good, inflated ego and pride, and on and on. To think WE can fix these women is delusional. Period.

So we get them into AL and visit on OUR TERMS and that's that. We reconcile the fact we were short changed in the mother department and oh well, we're doing what we can to survive. We keep the toxic phone calls short and say OH There's The Doorbell when the complaining we can't fix ramps up. And we leave their presence when it ramps up in person or the sharp claws come out to scratch or the fangs to bite.

Self protection is the key here, not "fixing" a situation too broken to BE fixed. Or hearing from others to force "positivity" on such a negative situation that it's downright insulting, minimizing your predicament 100%.

I'm sorry you're here in the first place, with others in the same boat. Wishing you the best of luck taking care of YOU now and letting the AL take care of MOM.
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Reverse it : Feed her with positivity.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2023
Why don’t you volunteer to feed the extremely negative mom positivity for the OP?

It is not the OP’s responsibility to do what you are suggesting.

I can guarantee that someone who has been negative all of their lives will not suddenly change because others are foolishly ‘feeding them positivity.’

The OP is living in the real world, not a fantasy world.
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It is sadly a downward spiral when an already negative person sees that people are getting frustrated with them, then it only adds to the negative anger. I dealt with this with my mom who was a narcissist, but acted a little bit different than your mom does. She was happy as long as everybody was catering to her and planning “fun” things for her. But the minute somebody didn’t want to do what she wanted them to do she would throw temper tantrum’s, or go in her bedroom and shut the door and refuse to talk or eat. It’s very difficult, and I don’t know how you can put her in a more positive mood . I wish I did. The best thing I guess that I can say is to shuffle her between yourself and your brother so no one has to deal with it for an extremely long period of time. In my case I had two sisters, but one of them was too sick to care for her, and the other one refused to. So it all fell on me for three years. During those three years we did get some small breaks…a few days vacation here and there …and I know that that helped me a lot. being a caregiver is extremely demanding and you do need some respite once in a while. I think if you can move her between yourself and your brother every few months, it will be easier to deal with. You really can’t change her attitude at all, only yours, so get yourself the rest you need.
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Many seniors have been brought up believing their value is zero or very close to zero.
The seed to feel incontrovertible is increased as a person recognizes he or she is being controlled by the child they were, for years, in control of abd that death is in their future.
TRyan reminding her of the time of joy and how secure she made your life, even if that fact is not true.
Your objective is to improve your ability to care for her and her lack of trust is impeding that goal so exergating the truth is a useful tool to show you are her advocate not an advsery.
Ask God for the words of comforting security.
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bundleofjoy Apr 2023
i think you misunderstand.
negative/toxic/abusive/triangulating people (like OP's mother, who by the way was probably always like that) don't behave that way, because of something LACKING in OP's behavior ---- like if only OP would say more loving words, if only OP would reassure her mother more, if only OP would give more words of comforting security, if only OP would...

OP is already doing all that. she's loving, caring, sweet.
it doesn't matter what OP does or says.

OP's mother's behavior is not because of that.
toxic people behave that way because they enjoy it. they get a kick out of making other people miserable. in fact, they would love to make you even more miserable than they are.

and it will NEVER stop.
you can hang up, you can have less contact...
the abuse will always come back.

they get a kick out of kicking you.
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i'm reading people's replies to OP's thread...
it's crazy to see how many nasty, elderly mothers rob their sweet, caring daughters of their time, energy, positivity...
all that time spent on reading up on narcs, on figuring out how to dodge hurtful words...
all that time spent with one's mind remembering those hurtful words, again and again...

these mothers rob their sweet daughters of - so - much time.
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The only way I can help is to let you know you’re not alone. Similar story with my 96 year old mom. She pretty much broke our spirit and our ego. Not sure what it is that triggers that. She pretty much helped out with our kids when we worked and was a Godsend. I wanted to give back and did for about 10 years but it changed these last 3 years. It’s probably a combo of early dementia, suspicion, slow weight loss and feelings of isolation. She’s with my brother in another city. She chose to go. Now they’re about to put her in a nearby nursing facility. Prayers for you, her and those who tend to her.❤️
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iamartin1927 Apr 2023
Update: She called me today cool as a cucumber. She was still with my brother!! Oh well, love and learn! She sounded content. That’s all I care about!
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This is not unusual--my mom was exactly the same way and as someone who works in senior living I see it a lot. People with dementia often start to lose those filters that normally might stop people from saying inappropriate things. If she was prone to triangulating behaviors previously, it will just get worse. Anger at the primary caregiver is awful--especially given how much time and love is put into it--but it is also very common. Your best defense is to see this as a disease of the brain, because that is what it is. Arguing doesn't really do any good because that is her reality. She does not have the insight she needs to see the changes in her thinking or behavior. This is a good time to learn how to distance yourself from the behavior mentally-- and try as best you can to not take it personally. Set boundaries wherever you can. Tell her you don't like being talked to like that and you will not continue to listen to it and will hang up if it continues. Then if it continues, say, "I love you, bye." and hang up. Don't take calls if you aren't up to it. Try gentle redirection whenever possible (change the subject). You and your brother are doing the best you can and need to stick together and support one another while you support her as best you can.
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My mom has always been a negative, covert narcissist, and now that she’s 92 it’s gotten worse. What has helped is reading articles and listening to podcasts such as Dr. Ramani about aging narcissists. I’ve done a lot of inner work to heal from a lifetime of dysfunction. Set boundaries and, as others have said, don’t take anything personally and don’t engage. It’s a hard road, but with help you can make it through healthy and strong.
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Marymo67, please know that you aren’t alone. My mother is the same way to my sister and I, although I am pegged as the worse of the two, aka I’m the bad daughter. I accompanied her to an appointment, had to listen to her spout off about everything negative in her world. I’ve learned not to engage as it will only fuel her fire. She told me (twice) this week that she will “haunt” me and said “like mother like daughter”, hoping that I’d be just like her at that age. When my sister confronted her, she denied even saying those things, which I knew she would. Clearly it is her dementia taking control.
So please do not take anything personal, despite the level of hurt it causes you or your brother. Let the professionals take care of her, she is in good hands. Limit your calls and interactions, know when to leave or hang up. It was hard for me, but I have to do this for my own metal health. I wish you peace and more fulfillment in yourself. (And for your brother too)
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They seem to have drugs for everything now and are quick to prescribe. As her doc for some happy pills.
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97yroldmom Apr 2023
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I had to chuckle when I read your answer. If only.
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She is safe where she is. Support your brother in her care from where you are and don’t answer the phone for a while when your mother calls. Tell her you are going out of town for a while and will see her when you get back. Take a break and that break will help you recharge and make a plan for your own mental survival. Such as limiting your contact with her to a couple times a week by phone and keeping the conversations short.

All her threats of moving out will go no where so ignore them. Unless she is capable of picking a new place, doing all the paperwork, packing herself up and going she has no choice but to stay where she is.
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Oh boy, I feel your pain. It's so hard to disconnect from a parent, but it sounds like it is something you need to do. If she is safe and has the basic needs met where she is, please know you can leave her be with a clear conscience. Stop answering the phone.
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This sounds so much like my mother her entire life but worse in her later years. Nothing or no one pleased her although she was so charming to most of her sitters. It was her true personality. She gossiped, judged and constantly criticized.

There is nothing you can do except set some boundaries, limiting and shortening visits & getting off the phone when she starts like you have been.

My mom delighted in creating conflict between me and my sister. At present since her funeral we have no communication. We both tried so hard to make her happy. Due to her being bedridden we had to move her to a nursing home, two days later she died.

It was exhausting and according to my doctor the stress brought on
my stroke. Do not let her ruin your health.
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helenb63 Apr 2023
Sorry to hear your story, so similar to mine, except that my mum sought to cause trouble between me and her hero, my husband. We struggled for six years to please her when she moved near us, at great cost in time, effort and stress, and had the same result - she became bedridden in hospital this year and died after a week in a nursing home. I am now trying to work through the exhaustion and conflicting emotions.

Marymo67, I hope you manage to find a way of coping too - I had counselling and anti-anxiety meds, and tried to set boundaries. It's truly saddening how many old ladies there are like this.
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Your mother is choosing to cause problems. You can choose to set some strong boundaries to keep it out of your life.

She addicted to her negativity and the drama that it causes. It's her addiction. Let her have it. You can't fix her.

Stop listening to her negativity. Not for one minute, much less for hours.

Please don't let her triangulate you and your brother. When she starts in on him, hang up - refuse to listen. Same when she starts in on you. Hang up - refuse to listen.

And don't accept false guilt for setting the boundaries.

Peace
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So very sorry you and your brother are having to deal with this. The aging person high in narcissist personality traits also with dementia too; is a very, very hard thing to deal with. I am years into something similar and have found having a great therapist to work with, to process and unpack things has been very helpful to me, you might want to consider such help.

You need to find ways to set boundaries and to take care of yourself! There is no pleasing these individuals, ever. There is no way to fix them, so you have to work on protecting yourself, your mental health.

The guilt tripping; pitting one sibling against the other; pulling in flying monkeys to do their bidding; irrational behaviors; grandiose fantasies and lying; the highly critical, invalidating and dehumanizing things they say (aka emotional and verbal abuse); only gets worse with aging as they loose their ability to maintain their false selves and loose their ability to get the admiration (supply) they need. Dementia sadly can make it all much worse.

I first had to to low contact and "grey rock" when having any interaction with my mom. She is 86, has a host of medical issues, cannot walk more than 5 feet, has dementia and has been in a nursing home for almost 3 years. The outburst were too much for me to even be in her room for more than 20 minutes. I finally went no contact as I just could not be in the same room with her, on the phone or to have any interactions. Her rage was just too much for me. (Long story on my profile about this life long experience of having a narcissist mother, not fun)....

Here are some videos you might find helpful. These three psychologists post lots of videos -- not all focused on elderly folks w/dementia high in narcissist personality traits.

Best of luck with this! I hope you can finds ways to separate, go grey rock, set boundaries, and take other steps to protect you and your mental health. This is very hard and not an easy journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8K8iyiN-HQ&t=764s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMzDBJssGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojLNKN-KNF8
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MeDolly Apr 2023
Your mother must be my mother's twin. I no longer speak to mine. I support my brother behind the scenes, as he is stuck with her, no one else in the family speaks to her either.

Believe me when I say "I understand"!
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