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Someone else here mentioned Metformin. The side effects in some people can be debilitating and deadly.
My grandfather lived four more years after I took him out of nursing care.
Regarding hospice, they may or may not stop medications thought to control an illness, but they typically up the dosages of deadly meds like morphine or fetanyl.
I think very ill patients are easier for hospice or nursing home workers to care for if they are drugged into submission.
When Hospice is called in, they remove all medications that are preventatives. Almost all patients will have an uptick in their health. It is temporary.
My opinion is that every person is unique. Medications may react differently than expected causing symptoms which disappear when drugs are discontinued. However the disease processes don’t go away. A respite of apparent well being may occur, but it is most likely temporary and the length is unpredictable.
When I took over my mom’s care more than ten years ago, she had virtually quit trying to socialize, depending on whether she was having a “good day“ or not.
What she she meant was whether she was having diarrhea or nausea/vomiting and our family quit inviting her anywhere.
I made it my mission for her to find out. What I found was that her metformin doesn’t claim any side effects but 100’s of folks claimed uncontrollable diarrhea when taking the generic version. Some said they had gone back to old name brand rx and had no problem with diarrhea again.
Her insurance company required the pharmacy to use generics where possible so I got her doc to try a different medication. He ordered one that even now costs an arm and a leg, but I get them from Canada.
It costs my mom same as her copay would but since the insurance doesn’t have to pay thousands more on their end, it doesn’t run her into the “donut hole.”
As for the nausea and vomiting, I blamed the Vicodin she was prescribed after hip surgery ten years before I came on board.
Shes 92 now and she’s mentally alert, mostly, but she’s very weak from inactivity that feeling sick caused so many years ago.
She only got off the vicodin a few months ago after being admitted to the hospital for severe constipation. Another side effect of Vicodin.
Im just saying that it’s true we have to watch out ourselves. I am not otherwise employed or I would not have had the time to do this research.
If something doesnt seem right right in their behavior, we need to follow our instincts to find out why.
I dont fault the doctor so much as I’ve seen my mom ask, “Isn’t there a pill I can take?” She also didn’t understand the pain charts and always claimed to have the worst pain, not hearing correctly how the chart measured.
That unfortunately when someone is in a state where he/she won't show an improvement in his condition, they are prescribed medicines/opiods to shorten their lives as there is no cure for them ... and no reason for keeping them alive! That's why instead of sending a loved one to one of those 'awful' places, it is better to hire someone to look after he/she at home where you can monitor their meals, and make sure that they are properly taken care of. The majority of convalescent homes have just one person in charge of 5 to 6 patients, if not more - usually during weekends - so whether they eat, are waited on, or taken to the bathroom it's a 'no no' -- trays are taken back to the kitchen without even been touched, patients end up with a diaper on for emergencies, and told to 'use them' and the next time they are been waited on is at bed time. There is always 'compassionate women' in badly need of a job, willing to be a caregiver. I honesty think that our parents deserve the best to thank them for all the love, affection and dedication we received from them since the very first day we were born.
My Mother was on Exelon. It made her sick and more forgetful. I took her off of it after about two weeks. Later she took Namenda. it helped her memory temporarily and she tolerated it better. However, it only helped maybe several months, and that's all.
Is it possible that your LO is experiencing "the last hurrah," if you will? Oftentimes, elders do get a sudden burst of energy right before passing. I suppose that anything is possible, but stopping most of his meds when he was near death ....either the physician was grossly negligent in prescribing these meds or something else is amiss.
We had neighbors whose doctor told them to bring everything in a bag that they took, and then he threw about 90 percent of medicines out. They lived another ten years after that. Had relative kicked out of hospice because she got so much better after going off some BP meds. Finally, about two years later, she was readmitted and passed away about three months ago. Finding a doctor who is conservative about prescribing is really important. My dad has stopped everything but one BP medicine. No longer falling as often.
It is very difficult to find a "conservative" Dr these days as, it seems like, everyone is getting kickbacks from Big Pharma. I went for a quick Cardio checkup few days ago and the amount of Big Pharma advertisements I saw at his clinic was mind boggling - a wall full of them. Immediately you get the doubt, whose interest does my Dr have in mind when checking me...a patient or Pharma? Patient is just one payment from the Insurance company; however, Pharma - the gift that keeps on giving.
I forgot something. The original nurse who told me in November 2015 to take my mom off Namenda and that hospice wouldn't pay for it, eventually told me that she had attended a meeting and had been informed the in the end stage of hospice, Namenda not only becomes ineffective, it "hastens death due to all of the negative side effects."
My mom is now in end stage Alzheimer's. She's 89 years old. My mom used to take Namenda. She went on hospice in November 2015 because she was rapidly declining. She ate very little, her body was the size of a 12 year old. She no longer watched t.v., or listened to music, which she had loved. She barely acknowledged me or her caregiver. Her head hung down and she slept much of the time. Everyone, including the hospice team thought she would be dead in a few months, 6 months at most.
The nurse told me to stop the Namenda -- in fact, hospice would not pay for it! The nurse explained that hospice was about keeping her comfortable, not about improving her condition. After a month, I noticed that she was more responsive and eating a little bit. Six months later she was alert, eating regularly, feisty, and putting on weight. She remained on hospice for a total of 13 months. They discharged her in December 2016 because she was stable and not dying any time soon.
By the way, she was off hospice for 14 months. She then went down hill at the end of 2017 and was readmitted to hospice in January 2018. She was discharged a month or so ago because she not only improved, but was deemed stable and not dying any time soon. She cannot walk, talk, toilet herself, or feed herself. But, she has a great appetite and loves to listen to music and to all of the discussions on her local public radio station.
Hi, I just read what you wrote. My mom is also 89 and she's also taking namenda and aricept. I'm wondering if I should stop giving it to her. She was doing fine but the past 3 days, every time we feed her, she'll chew a bit and then stop chewing and just leave her good in her mouth. We have to remind her to chew. I am so sad because because prior to this she was eating so well. You think removing her namenda will improve her eating?
Statins have been shown to have no or bad effects on older women--I got off them ten years ago because of the side effects. At best the actual statistics, once you get them un-exaggerated, are about 1% effective in men and offset by the side effects.
Many times the type of medications causes other problems. You may want to check on www.drugs.com to view the medication's side effects and other facts the drug he is taking is causing.
Thank you for your responses.....so far so good with father in law....it's been about 10 days now with very few meds (comfort meds) he is still more alert and his appetite has increased and he asked to get out of bed for the first time in about 6 mos😊
I was told that this is referred to as a Hospice Honeymoon. When they start on Hospice and temporarily seem so much better. Enjoy the gift of this precious time.
I was checking this out for my MIL. She has diabetes, heart problem, UTI and early dementia (she is 85) and likes to drink wine every day. She takes almost every vitamin that is on the market, in addition to whole bunch of pills. I did some research and gave it to my SIL's.
This program helps you and your doctor make sure that your medications are working to improve your health. A pharmacist or other health professional will give you a comprehensive review of all your medications and talk with you about: - How well your medications are working - Whether your medications have side effects - If there might be interactions between the drugs you're taking - Whether your costs can be lowered - Other problems you’re having You’ll get a written summary of this discussion, including an action plan that recommends what you can do to make the best use of your medications.
Based on what I see, this seems to be a good program. Based on my experience with Dr's, most of them don't have a clue of what they are doing. Since medications are all chemicals, it is better to use this program and check with the Pharmacist. Hope this helps.
After two plus months in the hospital this summer, I learned quite a bit. Number one rule: either you or your loved ones must advocate for yourself with the doctors and nurses. Believe me, I know the challenge of advocating for yourself while trying to recover from major illness (and, in my case, amputation of both legs and fingers.) It is natural to want to trust everything they say or do; after all, your life is in their hands. However, doctors and nurses are people just like the rest of us, and they don't necessarily keep up with health issues like they should. If something isn't working, let your doctors and nurses know. If they don't change things, find a different doctor, or nursing home, or SNF.
This is absolutely correct. The only person who is truly out for your best interests is you. Even if healthcare professionals really want to help... they don't know you and your preferences and "normal" as intimately as you and your family/friends do. They don't have the time to devote to just you. They can't be as motivated to do what's best for you as you are (for obvious reasons). They simply cannot care for you as well as you or your close family/friends could, no matter how much they may want to. They are the medical expert, but you are the "you" expert. They need your help, and they should listen to you even if it turns out you're wrong. (I feel like a few times when I told doctors about my mom, "No, don't ignore this, it is *not normal* for her, you need to find out what's wrong" they didn't listen and they should have.)
They can mess up, they can be shortsighted, they can be simply unknowledgeable about all the close and intimate details of you. I mean, one time my mom was in the ER and as we were waiting for transport back to her NH, a tech came in and said he had to draw blood. I asked why... he said he didn't know, just that he had an order from the docs. I pointed out to him that we were just waiting for transport, and then he realized that he was there for the other patient in the room, not my mom. She would've had some unnecessary needle sticks had I not asked and insisted.
A little over a year ago my 86 year old mother was on a couple of prescription meds (for blood pressure) and a boatload of vitamins....potassium, iron, calcium, etc. Ok, no biggie, right? She took them religiously and was doing "OK.' Last summer she went to live with my brother in another state and he had to set her up with a new doctor. First thing doc did was take her off EVERTHING (I was worried about that since she had been on the blood pressure meds for like 40 years....not something you just stop overnight.) Within a few months, she was back on the BP meds, but that is it! No more vitamins of any kind. She says she actually feels better, doesn't have some of the stomach upsets she always seemed to have, etc. She's been to the doc a couple of times for check ups and he hasn't changed anything. She's also been in the hospital a couple of times for a hernia, and THEY haven't recommended any additional meds or vitamins. SOOO, I guess just because you've been on something for a long time doesn't mean things can't change. Your body changes something like every 7 years, so why should it be such a surprise that your meds shouldn't be changed, too? I hope this is a good sign for your LO.
My Mom is 91 years old and about 5 years ago, I took her off a couple of drugs after researching them, and she did get better without the drugs. Many doctors prescribe too many meds that are not needed and many patients do not question them. When folks get that old, their bodies are frail and weak and many of those toxic drugs make thigs worse for them. Do some research. Even taking over the counter drugs can be dangerous.
My Dad was in NH admitted three mos. earlier after hospital sent him to rehab after the frequent monster UTI.....sent him there. Then I kept dad, who is 97 yrs, quite blind,some dementia only as his stay was lengthened...yes I noticed he got worse over time...I visited everyday as he was being put on Medicaid which took three mos and I purchased a Funeral Trust for him with his 10,000 that he had, anyway I asked the Doctors there, what meds is my Father on? never taking him to his Veterans and GP......the hospital had taken him off his diabetes drug,metformine and put him on a heart drug called m something....also he was taken off Zantac,and the only explanation from the NH docs was that well at his age we prefer to stop certain drugs...……..ok he went downhill as the inevitable stuck in wheelchair mode was going on the feeding was incremental with cold food although I would always be told o Gus is eating all his food!!well he looked dehydrated I checked for diaper changing...……..so I made fresh fruit smoothies everyday for him while taking him outside for fresh air......if you cannot eat in the dining room you have to be fed,...…..there would be one attendant for eight demented people. I have since read the AMA reviews on this nursing rehab facility, one star...…...so my Dad succumbed on July 15 admitted March 1 to symptoms of difficulty breathing high insulin 700, and long story short a concientous nurse called emergency after poor guy was suffering and the aides in th eNH tried to give him the insulin pac,waiting overnight???and his UTI was never detected too late he subsequently died in Palliative care at the hospital ten days later on august 3..Toxic Shock from UTI...by the way I have a UTI test strip that I purchased for my 90 year old Mom five years ago why all the delay in giving a urine test and waiting for days to get results???????? are these UTI tests anygood??O mean its a lot of work to get a urine specimen when you can get one right away...thru a test AVO………………….please come in and answer..i mean Im getting sick of seeing UTI all the time is this some sort of excuse??for old people or MEDS interference,infections,sittting in dirty diapers to blame. I feel my DAD WOULD have been better off sitting uder his Fig tree with a sarong on...……..daughter
Time will tell if it was one the meds. or the surge of energy that can come before death. That can be a blessing, like a final goodbye to those they’re with. My mother did this, and when a few people told me they enjoyed talking to her over dinner, I was sure they had her confused with someone else. (She had just moved to the Assisted Care home 2 weeks before). She was skin and bone. What she ate that night soon came back up later. 🙁. She passed away a week later. I know she enjoyed that miraculous surge and the ladies she talked to enjoyed it as well. As some have already said, if it was the meds., time will tell, and it will also tell what meds. he may still need to be on.
i found my 87 yr old mother using way too much tramadol. She was sleeping most of the day , and did not feel like eating. When I looked at the prescription, it says she could take up to 6 per day. This was an extreme amount. I notified her doctor , and he agreed it was too much, even though he had prescribed it. I think the doctors prescribe and then don’t carefully analyze what they have given, and the patient just keeps renewing them. I realized my mom could not manage her meds,and did not know a safe dosage , she just did what they ductur said.. As we age we don’t metabolize meds as well, and we need someone to advocate for us, go over the medications, and go to the doctor with us.
Yes, sometimes people get a prescription and keep taking it as ordered... even if they may not need it anymore, etc. Or, if given the instructions that they "may" take a certain number per day, they will see that as they "should" take that number per day (it seems I knew someone once with that mindset whose kids had a hard time setting them straight... can't remember if it was my grandmother or a family friend).
Doctors should take close care to review medications. Especially with older people who may not be as sharp as they once were, and/or are from a generation where questioning doctors wasn't done... if the doctor said to do it, they're right and you follow it, full stop.
Seems we have two camps of advice givers - I hope the OP returns with an update, I'm very interested in knowing whether this is a long term rally or not.
As mentioned earlier, it is part of the process of death. The body is sensing a purge of chemicals and attempts to heal itself. If you believe in miracles, be happy.
Some medications are supposed to be stopped at a certain age - like the Statin drugs, due to side-effects. Unfortunately, doctors are quick to prescribe but slow to stop.
My DH was still taking Simvastatin and it should have been stopped almost 10 years earlier.
Your father could be rallying and he could really be better. Only time will tell. I'm praying for you that he will be with you longer and feeling better.
The meds were likely killing him. They interact, creating new, toxic chemicals in the system, and old people tend to have unpredictable and idiosyncratic drug reactions. As few medicines as possible is best. Many good doctors advise no more than three but would zero be possible?
Watching people walk away from pharmacies with sacksful of drugs it's hard to believe that so many of us need so many drugs to stay alive. Doctors are trained to prescribe and drug companies love it.
Normal. When someone is near death, they actually get a new sense of wanting to eat more, talk, drink etc. It may just be temporary. The body getting ready for death..a renewed sense of spirit.
yep 23 years ago my father who was in end stage near death woke up one morning and said he was hungry and had a lot of energy so i started the grill and made his favorite a london broil, that day the whole family was together like old times wouldn't have know he was dying for cancer, the next day he went back to sleeping and within 4 days he was gone
4 weeks later mom started going downhill from COPD and the same thing happened near the end she asked for her favorite food and she had energy after that day she slept and a few days later drifted off
I feel that drugs don't heal; they just treat symptoms, and often with bad side effects. There are often natural approaches (herbs, diet, massage, exercise of some sort, prayer/meditation) that help much more. Drugs are a last resort, in my book.
Hmm, seems the meds were the problem. My 102 year old aunt was in the state of severe mental/physical decline. She could not communicate her wishes anymore, was confused about daily things like changing the channel on the TV, what she was eating, and she became incontinent. Her daughter took her to a different doctor who removed my aunt from all but 2 meds she was taking, leaving only a blood pressure med and a diuretic. In only days she was functioning again, communicating well, using her walker and going to the bathroom unassisted. Her daughter could only assume it was the meds causing her Mom's seeming decline.
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II. How We Are Paid.
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APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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Someone else here mentioned Metformin. The side effects in some people can be debilitating and deadly.
My grandfather lived four more years after I took him out of nursing care.
Regarding hospice, they may or may not stop medications thought to control an illness, but they typically up the dosages of deadly meds like morphine or fetanyl.
I think very ill patients are easier for hospice or nursing home workers to care for if they are drugged into submission.
What she she meant was whether she was having diarrhea or nausea/vomiting and our family quit inviting her anywhere.
I made it my mission for her to find out. What I found was that her metformin doesn’t claim any side effects but 100’s of folks claimed uncontrollable diarrhea when taking the generic version. Some said they had gone back to old name brand rx and had no problem with diarrhea again.
Her insurance company required the pharmacy to use generics where possible so I got her doc to try a different medication. He ordered one that even now costs an arm and a leg, but I get them from Canada.
It costs my mom same as her copay would but since the insurance doesn’t have to pay thousands more on their end, it doesn’t run her into the “donut hole.”
As for the nausea and vomiting, I blamed the Vicodin she was prescribed after hip surgery ten years before I came on board.
Shes 92 now and she’s mentally alert, mostly, but she’s very weak from inactivity that feeling sick caused so many years ago.
She only got off the vicodin a few months ago after being admitted to the hospital for severe constipation. Another side effect of Vicodin.
Im just saying that it’s true we have to watch out ourselves. I am not otherwise employed or I would not have had the time to do this research.
If something doesnt seem right right in their behavior, we need to follow our instincts to find out why.
I dont fault the doctor so much as I’ve seen my mom ask, “Isn’t there a pill I can take?” She also didn’t understand the pain charts and always claimed to have the worst pain, not hearing correctly how the chart measured.
The majority of convalescent homes have just one person in charge of 5 to 6 patients, if not more - usually during weekends - so whether they eat, are waited on, or taken to the bathroom it's a 'no no' -- trays are taken back to the kitchen without even been touched, patients end up with a diaper on for emergencies, and told to 'use them' and the next time they are been waited on is at bed time.
There is always 'compassionate women' in badly need of a job, willing to be a caregiver.
I honesty think that our parents deserve the best to thank them for all the love, affection and dedication we received from them since the very first day we were born.
I Love it !
elena
I had a similar situation with my Grandfather.
He was in a hospice care facility and began declining rapidly after being put on too many meds......painkillers, and sleep aids.
He was totally out of it. It seemed the hospice staff only wanted to keep him less alert rather than more alert. Perhaps he was less trouble that way.
I took him out and brought him home and he lived another four years.
The nurse told me to stop the Namenda -- in fact, hospice would not pay for it! The nurse explained that hospice was about keeping her comfortable, not about improving her condition. After a month, I noticed that she was more responsive and eating a little bit. Six months later she was alert, eating regularly, feisty, and putting on weight. She remained on hospice for a total of 13 months. They discharged her in December 2016 because she was stable and not dying any time soon.
By the way, she was off hospice for 14 months. She then went down hill at the end of 2017 and was readmitted to hospice in January 2018. She was discharged a month or so ago because she not only improved, but was deemed stable and not dying any time soon. She cannot walk, talk, toilet herself, or feed herself. But, she has a great appetite and loves to listen to music and to all of the discussions on her local public radio station.
Check this out..
https://www.medicare.gov/drug-coverage-part-d/what-drug-plans-cover/medication-therapy-management-programs-for-complex-health-needs
This program helps you and your doctor make sure that your medications are working to improve your health. A pharmacist or other health professional will give you a comprehensive review of all your medications and talk with you about:
- How well your medications are working
- Whether your medications have side effects
- If there might be interactions between the drugs you're taking
- Whether your costs can be lowered
- Other problems you’re having
You’ll get a written summary of this discussion, including an action plan that recommends what you can do to make the best use of your medications.
Based on what I see, this seems to be a good program. Based on my experience with Dr's, most of them don't have a clue of what they are doing. Since medications are all chemicals, it is better to use this program and check with the Pharmacist. Hope this helps.
They can mess up, they can be shortsighted, they can be simply unknowledgeable about all the close and intimate details of you. I mean, one time my mom was in the ER and as we were waiting for transport back to her NH, a tech came in and said he had to draw blood. I asked why... he said he didn't know, just that he had an order from the docs. I pointed out to him that we were just waiting for transport, and then he realized that he was there for the other patient in the room, not my mom. She would've had some unnecessary needle sticks had I not asked and insisted.
a couple of drugs after researching them, and she did get better
without the drugs. Many doctors prescribe too many meds
that are not needed and many patients do not question them.
When folks get that old, their bodies are frail and weak and
many of those toxic drugs make thigs worse for them. Do some
research. Even taking over the counter drugs can be dangerous.
after the frequent monster UTI.....sent him there. Then I kept dad, who is 97 yrs,
quite blind,some dementia only as his stay was lengthened...yes I noticed he got worse over time...I visited everyday as he was being put on Medicaid which took
three mos and I purchased a Funeral Trust for him with his 10,000 that he had,
anyway I asked the Doctors there, what meds is my Father on? never taking him to his Veterans and GP......the hospital had taken him off his diabetes drug,metformine and put him on a heart drug called m something....also he was taken off Zantac,and the only explanation from the NH docs was that well at his age we prefer to stop certain drugs...……..ok he went downhill as the inevitable
stuck in wheelchair mode was going on the feeding was incremental with cold
food although I would always be told o Gus is eating all his food!!well he looked
dehydrated I checked for diaper changing...……..so I made fresh fruit smoothies
everyday for him while taking him outside for fresh air......if you cannot eat in the dining room you have to be fed,...…..there would be one attendant for eight demented people. I have since read the AMA reviews on this nursing rehab
facility, one star...…...so my Dad succumbed on July 15 admitted March 1 to symptoms of difficulty breathing high insulin 700, and long story short a concientous nurse called emergency after poor guy was suffering and the aides
in th eNH tried to give him the insulin pac,waiting overnight???and his UTI
was never detected too late he subsequently died in Palliative care at the hospital ten days later on august 3..Toxic Shock from UTI...by the way I have
a UTI test strip that I purchased for my 90 year old Mom five years ago why all the delay in giving a urine test and waiting for days to get results????????
are these UTI tests anygood??O mean its a lot of work to get a urine specimen
when you can get one right away...thru a test AVO………………….please come in and answer..i mean Im getting sick of seeing UTI all the time is this some sort of excuse??for old people or MEDS interference,infections,sittting in dirty diapers to blame.
I feel my DAD WOULD have been better off sitting uder his Fig tree with a sarong on...……..daughter
As some have already said, if it was the meds., time will tell, and it will also tell what meds. he may still need to be on.
This was an extreme amount. I notified her doctor , and he agreed it was too much, even though he had prescribed it.
I think the doctors prescribe and then don’t carefully analyze what they have given, and the patient just keeps renewing them. I realized my mom could not manage her meds,and did not know a safe dosage , she just did what they ductur said.. As we age we don’t metabolize meds as well, and we need someone to advocate for us, go over the medications, and go to the doctor with us.
Doctors should take close care to review medications. Especially with older people who may not be as sharp as they once were, and/or are from a generation where questioning doctors wasn't done... if the doctor said to do it, they're right and you follow it, full stop.
My DH was still taking Simvastatin and it should have been stopped almost 10 years earlier.
Your father could be rallying and he could really be better. Only time will tell. I'm praying for you that he will be with you longer and feeling better.
Watching people walk away from pharmacies with sacksful of drugs it's hard to believe that so many of us need so many drugs to stay alive. Doctors are trained to prescribe and drug companies love it.
4 weeks later mom started going downhill from COPD and the same thing happened near the end she asked for her favorite food and she had energy after that day she slept and a few days later drifted off
8 week to the day that my father died