My brother and I moved our 78 year old mentally ill mother closer to me. She is an extreme hoarder and even worse housekeeper. We threw a ton of stuff away, but she thinks it is in storage. There is no storage!! Her house was toxic and there were very few things worth saving. We saved pictures and family items, but she keeps asking for things in storage and I don't know what to do? My brother is back in CA now and I am all alone in this. I never wanted to lie to her about the storage but I also knew that it was the only way we could get her out of the apartment to help her. There were mice feces, bugs, dirt everywhere. Any suggestions would be helpful, because if and when she finds out, there is going to be hell to pay I am sure.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to tell little white lies of coming up with where their items are. It is a sense of calm, comfort, and peace that they still have their items somewhere even if they can’t see them.
We couldn’t bring all her stuff back to my house (where she lives now) and most of it wasn’t worth saving. Brought back pictures, items of sentiment, and requested items. House had bugs and layers of filth. Dishes were wearing through to the underlayment.
But now I’m struggling with her getting very upset over something that she thinks of that she wants (and I know we don’t have), she blames anyone moving that it was stolen. Right now we are still going through what was brought back, and I tell her that we haven’t gone through all the boxes yet. Maybe it will be in there. When all the boxes are done and she remembers something else, there will be hell for me to pay for. Guess I’ll have to think of something else when that time comes. (She was told before the move and after the move that we couldn’t bring everything back).
I heard a radio interview once where a grandchild wrote a book about her relationship with her mom and grandma.
It’s fascinating to hear about a child views their family situations. I love hearing authors being interviewed about their book.
She said her grandma was fiercely independent and so was her mom. Both women were intensely strong and stubborn.
She said they both put her in the middle and she desperately didn’t want to take sides because she loved them both.
She said it was strange seeing her ‘mom’ be a ‘mom’ to her grandma because her grandma had always been a strong personality and she loved how strong her grandma was.
She said the only time that she saw her grandma compliant with her mom was after the ALZ. She said the only time she saw compassion from her mom to her grandma was after the ALZ.
She said the only time she ever saw her mom and grandma get along was after the grandma got ALZ and in some ways it was a blessing for her grandma because the painful memories were erased from her grandma.
She said her mom for the first time saw this overly critical woman with kindness in her heart because the harsh criticism no longer happened.
These cognitive issues are truly baffling. Others have testified to the opposite occurring saying that cognitive decline ruined the relationship. It’s all so individual.
Then she said it was the only time that she wasn’t thrown in the middle of their fights and how it was the very first time they were kind to each other because the grandma couldn’t compete with the daughter anymore. She saw how her grandma truly needed help. She said her mom for the first time felt needed by her mom.
The mom didn’t have to impress her mother anymore. It was fascinating hearing this from the grown up granddaughter who wrote a book as a young adult after her grandma died. It’s all about perspective.
It hurts kids being put in the middle of anything. I couldn’t stand being pitted against my siblings and them against me from my mom. I detested it.
Same with marriage. No matter how upset I was with my husband about whatever I never wanted my kids to be a part of ‘our’ conflict so I never trashed my husband to our kids. He didn’t trash me to them. It just isn’t fair to do that to young children.
I made up my mind after listening to this interview that I would never ever put my kids in that position and force them to choose sides between my mother and me. Fortunately my mother never undermined me to my children because that would have made me furious.
Later on though, my kids thanked me for allowing them to love grandma just because she was grandma but they noticed how she treated me even if I didn’t complain to them about her. They noticed me losing my temper at times too, even though I tried so hard not to. It is hard having a parent live with us. Even those with overall good relationships do attest that it isn’t perfect at all times. That’s impossible! No one has a ‘perfect life with perfect parents, husband or kids, just doesn’t exists.
It’s such a complicated thing. My mom didn’t have cognitive issues that I was aware of. She has Parkinson’s disease.
Seriously when I read these stories like this, ‘rat feces’ etc. I became terrified of I hope I will never be that person and my kid on this website discussing me.
I know that my mom hates having Parkinson’s and being a burden. It has to stink losing independence. To lose independence, plus your memory must be just horrible. Some people say people are aware of cognitive decline when it starts to happen. I’ve heard others say they are oblivious to it.
She never wants to "SEE" any of this stuff, she just wants to know that it still is "there' wherever "there" is.
We did have to keep all her checking statements from 1964 and all her PCH envelopes and inserts in bins in the basement. They are in huge plastic bins marked "Super essential to life documents" so when she passes we don't have to go back and go through it.
hoping you’re feeling well & getting stronger every day...
Hugs 🤗
did she tell you everything she did ?
Your observations recalled an econ theory, the name of which I don't remember right now. It addressed the positive reinforcement of spending, a monetary illusion perhaps of being more financially stable than the individual might be. Simply put, people affected by this phenomenon get gratitude and reinforcement from spending money, as well as a feeling of being more financially stable.
And the items purchased apparently reinforce that feeling. This might, however, address things like clothes, jewelry and other consumer goods purchases. But over the years, those things can deteriorate and end up in piles, with less value or comfort. And so the process can continue.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
I think I will share it in the Adult Children of Hoarders group I am in.
The purchase of so much duplication I believe has several reasons. The act of purchasing has positive reinforcement of either the sales girl OR "winning" an eBay auction, a satisfying grab on Amazon or QVC, ehich is finished off with a visit from the UPS driver. There's the distraction of shopping instead of dealing with the reality of home - magical thinking. Then there is the protection of the item, piece by piece, layer by layer. To discard an item is to admit defeat in the hunt for the bargain, collection, etc. Throwing away a newspaper, relic, or Happy meal toy is disposing of history, their personal historic story. They are afraid to let go as if it would diminish their own value.
My hoarder organized her stuff like a pro, but did not protect it from destruction, just disposal. She churned her collection in the name of cleaning, just like the tv shows do when they box up like stuff and put it back in the house. They can't be fixed - it's the hoarders choice to live like they do, but those around them do not have to accept the behavior. I had to separate myself from mthr numerous times; the husband with the hoarding wife who went on the trip took what steps he needed to to continue to live in his house. The person who chose not to visit the friend because of the 12 cats made a good choice too.
BKB: Wait for the next stage of dementia where you mom will be waiting for her daddy to take her home. It comes too fast but the stuff will no longer be missed. It took mthr less than a year to forget her house and be waiting for the school bus. In the meantime, the hoarder wants to know her stuff- her being, her life, her value- is safe. Whatever you say, help her with that valuing.
Fantastic! Please let me know how you like it. It’s a fascinating look into parenting throughout generations and in different cultural situations. Wait until you read about mothers from the ‘Victorian era.’ I’m telling you, every generation has their issues and challenges, right?
Yes, the title is Act Natural and the author is Jennifer Traig. She is a wonderful writer with a wicked sense of humor that I totally appreciate! Anyway, great read.
I save money by listening to WRBH. Hahaha. I don’t have to buy the book. I do buy some books but they read only non abridged versions. It’s wonderful because sometimes the library is out of a book too. They usually order it if possible.
I have to say that many years ago while on a trip to D.C. I went to see the Library of Congress. It’s very interesting and just a spectacular building. I love beautiful architecture.
You’re right. The ‘good old days’ weren’t always so good! There is a book playing on our local radio station that reads incredible books for the blind about the topic you just addressed. It’s about the lifestyle and habits of earlier mothers. Oh, it is so interesting. Can’t recall the name of the book at the moment. I think it’s something like, ‘Act Natural.’ I will try to find the exact title and author for you if you think you’d like to read it.
The radio station is WRBH in New Orleans. As many sighted people listen to it. They do fiction and non fiction, newspapers, magazines, medical journals, etc.
All the people who read for the station are volunteers. Just a wonderful public radio station that serves our community. They are uptown on Magazine St.
I would tell her that you are sharing the storage unit, because those things are expensive and you put a truck load of stuff in the front of all her things and would she be okay with waiting because it is going to take 5 guys to rearrange everything so you can reach her things. You thought that everything would be safer being way, way in the back. Right now you just can't manage getting it rearranged, so maybe you could pick up something similar next time you go shopping?
Anything to avoid that battle ground, because it is a bloody losing battle.
Please let us know what works, my mom is a hoarder and I will be climbing this hill soon. I once spent 6 weeks trying to clean her house. She brought back 95% of the garbage I had put out for recycling and donations. I finally got the bedroom, bathroom and kitchen clean enough for her husband to come home after having part of his colon removed. It was insane.
I love your response to Surprise. I also love her honesty in her reply. She has first hand experience and that counts for a lot. Others are speculating if they haven’t lived it but she did go through a hoarding situation with her mom.
I like that you are accepting that you can’t change your mom. I am sure it took awhile to reach that point. We reach out to others because we want the best. Then we have to put into practice ‘the serenity prayer’ to change what we can and equally as important, to accept what we can’t. Proud of you! Took me years to accept things in certain situations but when we do we are finally able to find peace, right?
I love looking in antique shops and I own some antiques but I don’t get carried away with anything. I despise clutter.
I am not nor ever have been an impulse shopper. That I don’t get either. I have friends who go shopping, then return it the next day because they really didn’t like it. I don’t buy something unless I love it. I taught that to my daughters. I wanted them to know the value of a dollar.
I had simple rules with them. I showed them respect and so I received respect from each of my daughters. Were they perfect? Of course not. Was I the perfect parent? No one has a perfect parent or child. We do our best.
I told them we both had to like something before we made the final purchase. They have very different styles. The oldest is very eclectic and the youngest is a real diva!
When I took them shopping I told them that they needed to make sure they liked it because we were not going to buy something to take up space in a closet and not be worn.
I remember one time my daughter tried on a dress that I just loved. It looked so pretty on her. She was about 12 at the time. I told her how much I liked it and thought she should pick that dress because it was so pretty on her. Well, she hated the dress! She didn’t like anything at all about it and she quickly reminded me of ‘my’ rule that we ‘both’ have to like it. I stuck to my word and hung the dress back up. It would have stayed in her closet.
What is the point of making a kid wear something they hate? I always felt like they needed to learn to make their own choices because one day I would not be around to help them. It’s our job to teach them independence and control such as being selective about what to buy.
My kids had friends that had three times as much stuff as they did. That’s teaching clutter at a very young age! They didn’t use or appreciate most of it. Most of it would be pitched or donated and the items were still brand new.
Some of their friends had never gone to the zoo, aquarium, museum, a festival, a symphony concert, even a local park because all they knew were their things. Things shouldn’t be our only memories. Experiences with others, learning dance, music, art lessons or a sport is special. Those experiences last a lifetime. Stuff eventually ends up in a garbage dump.
1. Never argue, instead agree.
2. Never reason, instead divert.
3. Never shame, instead distract.
4. Never lecture, instead reassure.
5. Never say remember, say reminisce.
6. Never say I told you, instead repeat.
7. Never say "you can't." Instead say -- do what you can.
8. Never command or demand, instead ask or model.
9. Never condescend, instead encourage and praise.
10. Never force, instead reinforce.
Some of 'em I have to think about-- but most make sense since your Mom cannot think straight anymore. I recommend never letting her be her own boss ever again. THAT is asking for trouble-- she could burn the place down. For the first many years we used caregivers in an independent living facility-- then when she became a danger to her self-- next door to a Alzheimer's facility she went . And she could not remember living in the independent living facility. We had to lie to her to protect her-- and she was never the wiser-- it all worked out. Is your Mom on any kinda of meds ? Where Mom is at now the meds are mixed into some chocolate pudding. Good luck and God bless.
We moved mthr from the worst hoarding imaginable, but she did want to go home when she recovered a bit. I found a letter she wrote in one of her lucid (a relative term) moments where she told the woman who stole a farm from her that we (me & hubby) slipped her a mickey and had imprisoned her in a dormitory. She related all the (true) stories about her home we told her - that the electricity/water was off at both houses and we'd have to pay deposits, and the like. We were so evil we rescued her from death, had her stage 3 cancer cured by a fantastic, hard to get doctor, and placed her where she would have 3 meals a day, running hot and cold water, air conditioning, and a real bed with covers, not her fleas and newspapers and boxes and freezing water in the toilet. Sigh.
If I were in your shoes, I'd lie. Couldn't find the key. Place is too far to go by myself. Whatever. What she wants to hear is "Your stuff is still safe." She thinks that without her stuff, her past is meaningless. Let her think her stuff is safe, and ask about past memories so she has something else to trigger those warm fuzzy feelings.
Since you grew up with a hoarder maybe you can shed some light on it for me. I appreciate your honesty and insight on the topic.
There is a difference between a ‘collector’ and a ‘hoarder’ but people who collect can let it get out of hand too. Why would anyone need 50 cookie jars or 100 sets of salt and pepper shakers or frogs, owls, lighthouses or any other thing they collect? Why can’t they stop at 3 of them? Something reasonable. I took an interior design course years ago. The instructor said ‘three’ of something was considered a grouping or collection. She said to have too much was a distraction. It’s true.
Are they aware they are putting things before people even if people tell them? It seems complicated. I can’t stand clutter. For them though, somehow it’s comforting. Do they not see the accumulation of things?
I wonder if they could replace the actual object that is sentimental to be replaced with a photograph a perhaps a written account with a memory.
I love to visit museums and I always read the notes beside an object to learn about it. Are they afraid of memories being lost?
I don’t understand someone who saves empty boxes, trash, old junk mail. That has no sentimental meaning, just clutter.
Family members can be sensitive about cherished objects and encourage clearing out items but I suppose all the sensitivity in the world won’t help the worst hoarders. There is a limit to what we keep and how does one enjoy things if they are placed in storage? I’ve never placed anything in storage. Is that expensive for long term?
Also, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure but if other family members or friends don’t want it then donate it or sell it on eBay. I used to work with someone that was an eBay Queen! She made lots of money selling her old stuff. As soon as her kids outgrew something or no longer played with a toy she would sell it on eBay. After Christmas if she received gifts she didn’t like, they were promptly sold on eBay too!
So in short, plan some distracting conversation topics. If she wants to go to the storage facility simply say that’s a great idea but you already have an appt today. Or, we won’t have time if we go out to lunch. Ask if she wants to go through her closet and make sure she has enough clothes for the season. Or, could we organize your drawers today. Many times some of those tasks are necessary anyway - but it allows her to touch and handle “her” things. You are simply distracting her from the storage discussion.
Another idea might be to buy some little things that she historically hoarded and bring them in a storage box. Simply tell her that you brought one of the boxes from storage that she might enjoy the most. If there is room - let her keep her treasure box. If not, make sure she understands that it has to go back to storage.
Going around the discussion allows you to avoid a huge upset for you both.
Good luck!
thats how much i hate clutter .
I do like creating. I love making jewelry so I have my supplies but I have either sold or given most away. I hardly ever keep a piece for myself. I have certain stores that I love to shop in for supplies but I am careful not to buy more than I need. I’ve always shopped that way. I am not an impulse shopper.
It’s interesting, we can have both good and bad memories attached to a home. I think a ‘fresh start’ in a new environment can have value. It all depends on what perspective an individual has.
Does she have all her faculties even though (line 1) "..78 year old mentally ill mother .." she is mentally ill and still recalls specific items?
Robert
I like the view of the poster that pointed out that there are memories and stories attached to certain objects and to ask them to share a story. That’s really sweet and who doesn’t love learning a little bit of history? I love that.
Also, the poster who said that her husband threw away her cherished objects that meant so much to her because he saw them as ‘clutter’ and enlisted their kids to do his dirty work while pretending to be on a relaxing trip with his wife. That is pure evil!
You can’t blame his wife for harboring resentment and Lealonnie came up with the perfect solution! Send him on a fishing or golfing trip and get rid of his things. Lealonnie, you are so smart! Funny too! I just love reading your post. Hell, you could be Dear Abby as far as I am concerned.
It reminds me of my evil FIL when immediately after my sweet MIL’s funeral he started saying that he wanted everything out of the house. He showed no grief. His son became upset with him and flat out asked him, “Dad, can’t we discuss this at a later time? We just buried mom!”
Of course at that time we had no inkling that he had a woman friend in the background that he was planning on moving into his home and he had to make room for her. New woman moved in two weeks after his long and supposedly ‘happy marriage’ to my MIL. All of my MIL’s things were ditched quickly! Was horrible. We were shocked and crushed.
Would I have liked certain things? Maybe, but my darling MIL gave me a few things before she died.
Once I admired her beautiful nativity set she had displayed at Christmas and after Christmas she had packed it up and gave it to me. I was so touched by that.
I also have mementos that my husband made for her as gifts when he was a little boy in school. She gave me those too. I love those!
But what I cherish most are the memories of her love that I hold in my heart. Not one single photo of any of his family remained on the walls. They were all replaced with the new woman’s family photos and photos of him with her.
I hope my MIL haunted them. Hahaha. We did notice that he moved her into my husband’s old bedroom. Guess he felt odd or she felt odd about sleeping in the same room as he slept in with my sweet MIL. Oh, what crazy circumstances we find ourselves in, right?
While I'm not criticizing others, I think that suggesting items were burned, stolen, or otherwise violently disposed of can only be traumatic.
It might be that people in that age group (and my age group) attach memories to objects which support us through challenging times, and breaking those memories has MORE of an effect on an older age group than a younger group.
E.g., I couldn't care less about a cell phone when it's old and no longer functional. Same with a CD player. But I still have pleasant flashbacks to youth when I take out a pair of ballet or tap shoes, or something my family gave me at a birthday or holiday. Or items we purchased on vacations.
And somewhere I still have a written acknowledgment from Pete Seeger thanking my sister and I for watching his guitar at a Newport Folk Festival. That I will NEVER throw out. I can still picture sitting on the ground, the sound of forceful but often beautiful music creating the atmosphere for young people wanting to change the world. And I still remember seeing Buffy Ste. Marie in a drugstore in Newport, Rhode Island.
The memories of those pleasant events attaches to items.
So I would do this: if there are special items, find something (fresh and clean) as close as you can and substitute it, leaving it with your mother. Don't help destroy or segregate the memories; help support them.
Doesn’t every family have a ‘strange’ uncle? I did. It is uplifting to hear stories like yours. It makes the rest of us realize others are in the very same boat.
When my children were younger, I had a framed print of Noah’s Ark hanging. It was visually appealing to me but the caption underneath the picture is what made me buy it, “We are all in the same boat, let’s keep it afloat.”