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My father is 79 and walked into a dealership to purchase a truck on a Wed. Thursday was thanksgiving so Friday he goes back with a $20,000 check in hand and drives off with a brand new Ford f-150. My father has dementia, blind in one eye and almost bind in the other. He walks with a walker and is dialysised 3 days a week. He has recently separated from his wife of 54 years. He suffers from depression and insomnia. My father hasn't driven in 3 years and has not been insured in the same amount of time. He lives in a retirement/assisted living facility. The money he "had", was to cover his rent, dialysis treatment and basic needs however, since withdrawing this money he only has a few thousand $'s left. My father did not test drive the truck but instead they had him sign the paperwork, insure him AND get him insured before leaving the lot. My father got confused and lost and ended up crashing the truck 1.5 hours away from where he lives. It took the hospital where he was taken almost 3 hours to find contact me by using our local sheriffs office. Imagine my surprise when the sheriff comes to my door at 230 am in the morning stating my father his been in an accident with his truck. After my initial shock, reality sets in and I say wait you have the wrong guy my dad doesn't even have a truck!! Of course they confirmed for me that it was in fact my dad and that he had purchased the truck earlier in the day. My dad is okay but the issue is with the dealership. Upon returning the truck I agree to pay for any damages which they assess to be about $4,000. Once I agree to that easily they come back with you will have to pay the depreciation value of the truck. Now wait a minute...you guys should have never sold him the truck based of off his physical and mental state. They told me that they can't refuse to sell to "old people"! I explained to him his mental health issues, what this would do to him financially (homeless and unable to afford dialysis) and their response was you should have had his license suspended. Since he had a valid drivers license and a check we did nothing wrong. I am so out of my league and now they have the money and the truck!!! What do I do? What can I do? The paperwork has his wrong address on it and 2 of the documents look forged. I have spoken to the Sales Mgr, the finance mgr and the general mgr of said dealership....and each has lied on so many levels but the one thing they all said the same was...Kick rocks and pound sand lady. Oh and they had him sign a letter of Arbitration which I have never seen before when purchasing a vehicle. Help any and all advise is welcome.

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What a nightmare! I don’t have an answer but want to wish you well. Best of luck to you and your dad.
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I'm so sorry to read about these distressing events. In your information you do not say your father has dementia. How is the dealership supposed to know that your dad should not be purchasing a vehicle or even driving? They don't ask you any medical questions when you buy a vehicle or give you a test. I bought one last fall from a dealership and no one asked me about my mental state. They just showed me what I asked for and when I agreed on the price they wanted to see my driver's license. That's it. So why are they responsible? And everyone knows the minute you drive a vehicle off a lot it depreciates. Can you imagine if a car salesperson "suspected" someone "shouldn't" be buying a vehicle based on a hunch and they turned out to be wrong? Also, you will have to give proof of forgery...that's a serious charge. Do you have any way to prove it? Sorry, no one to blame here and truly sorry you are left holding the bag.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Spoken by a former car salesperson and /or the devil's advocate!
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There should be laws in place to protect the elderly from being taken advantage of. It is such a shame.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Some states have consumer protection laws and it might be covered with that...
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Call your local elected officials, the newspaper and TV consumer reporters.

The dealership did nothing wrong, but you may be able to get help from the sources mentioned.
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The insurance should pay for most of the truck repairs. You would probably be better off to get the truck fixed and sell it yourself. See if the local TV consumer reporter would run a story on how you need to sell the truck quickly or post your story to a local facebook community sales page. You might want to tell the dealership you are planning to publish your story so you can recover as much of your father's money as possible but you want to give them one last chance to step up and do the right thing before this unfortunate incident becomes general knowledge.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Not to mention that the $4K to fix is no doubt a retail price and the dealership has the parts, labor etc to do for a fraction of that.
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I really am not sure if this would apply (especially with the accident), but isn’t there a 72 hr window where you can legally return the truck before the contract is binding? I’m just looking at alternatives and this sounds far fetched but anything is worth a try.

Good thing the dealership did manage to get him insured prior to purchasing the truck. That saved the day for your father & you.

My brother (who had schizophrenia but able to live alone and was quite good with paying bills and his finances) bought a truck in March of this year and died unexpectedly in June.
I read every paragraph in his contract with the dealer and bank (who financed the vehicle) for any loophole I could find and came up with nothing. It was a used truck so wasn’t expensive like your father’s was, but my brother did put a down payment of $5000 he had saved up for this purpose.

Salesman can’t and won’t verify the mental acuity of the buyer. They are not healthcare workers. Could you imagine the negative publicity the dealership would get if they refused to sell a car to an elderly person? You can’t expect them to do that, or call a family member to ask a person’s health status & mental acuity either. The dealer could open themselves up for lawsuits for elderly discrimination.

I tried to recoup something from that contract of my brother’s but got nowhere. And what a crappy deal he got from the dealer but my brother refused my offer to help negotiate a deal for the car he wanted and bought the truck without me even knowing he did. He told me a month or two afterwards and died 6/8.

I thought about trying to sell it but the title would have been changed so I could act on this and that was way too complicated. Fortunately you won’t have to do that. So I gave it back to the bank who now expects to get $8K out of me. (Dream on). Selling it can be a big PIA too. I washed my hands of it.

Good of luck and I hope you can recoup some of that $20K.
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
Theres no 3 day return period on cars and even if there was, the truck is wrecked so that wouldn’t help the OP because you wouldn’t be allowed to crash the car and then take it back and get out of paying....
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Can't discriminate against the elderly, and they're not going to do a medical background check on every customer. You can't tell if someone has dementia just by looking at them, and plenty of people with walkers/wheelchairs/scooters still drive just fine. The dealership did nothing wrong.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
When someone comes in without any insurance it's a red flag. They exploited the situation and could have handled it with more finesse if they were decent people.
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Although the dealership is morally bankrupt and ethically challenged, it appears they have all their legal ducks in a row. There are laws against taking advantage of the elderly. The standard of financial abuse generally has to demonstrate some kind of coercion, manipulation, or undue influence of the elderly individual. None of that seems to apply here. However, I completely understand you wanting some justice. Your best opportunity may be to publicly shame the dealership. As others have suggested, you should contact local tv stations, news outlets and consumer protection groups. Definitely shine a light on these people through social media as well. Moving forward though, there’s probably a few things that need to happen. You already realize that his driver’s license needs to be turned in. But you also may want to take steps to have him deemed incompetent. He is no longer capable of making sound decisions on his own behalf. With that in mind, AL is probably no longer appropriate. He needs much closer supervision than what the average AL facility can provide. And if he’s depleted his finances, then you may have to file for medicaid. You’ve got a lot to deal with and I’m so sorry. In my experience, it can be very helpful to consult with an elder law attorney. You may decide not to retain their services, but I think it will give you peace of mind as you move forward. They can offer solid advice in an organized fashion at a time when you feel like you’re in a tornado. Good luck to you and your dad.
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Take it to the media.
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2019
Why?
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This happened to my Mother. I was there. It was 3 years ago and my mother was 92 and still driving and competent. Her 20 year old car literally died at the shop. Unrepairable without spending thousands of dollars. She said take me to the Toyota dealer. I’m buying a new car. Against my wishes I reluctantly agreed and took her to the dealer. She bought a new car. They wanted me to co-sign and I said no. Now my mother gambled all her money away and all she had was social security and a little pension. No savings account at all. They sold her the car. No age limit, no savings account, no job? NO PROBLEM!!!! They sold her the car. Luckily there was a 24 hour clause to cancel the contract . She came to her senses and called in the morning to cancel the contract. The dealership did NOTHING wrong!!!!!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Elaine,

Oh my gosh! Co sign for a gambler? No way! You’re a smart woman. Thank God for the cancellation clause.
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Cautionary tale for anyone whose conflicted about taking the driver's license away.

The dealership did not take advantage but rather they do what car salesmen do i..e they sold a car.

Now that the car has an accident on its record, it's worth even less. Some lots won't even accept the truck to sell. List it on Craigslist and ask to put flyers up at the grocery store and diner. You're going to take a huge hit but I'd get rid of it ASAP.

And please cut up his driver's license!
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soninlaw58 Dec 2019
We finally got my MIL's primary care physician to do the paperwork to the DMV to not allow her to renew her license. He kept telling us to take her keys, but when we did that she called the Sheriff's Dept on us and the Deputy told us that as long as she had a license, nothing we could do and we had to give her the keys back.

Her license is good until January, but we do have her keys now as her mental state has seriously deteriorated in the last month. And we have daily fireworks around here about the keys. But she can't remember how to dial 911 (I think)

C'est la vie
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I can’t believe people are suggesting shaming the dealership. They did nothing wrong. My question is if your father is so bad off how did he have access to a checkbook and how did he manage to even get to the dealership?
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2019
Exactly!
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I wonder what the responses would be if she was saying that her 79 year old dad took a check to pay cash for a truck and the dealership refused to sell it to him based on their opinion that he was to old to be driving.

They did nothing wrong and this is an expensive lesson, but publicly shaming the dealership would be a whole lot more expensive, they would sue for defamation, and they have deep pockets, think long and hard and consult an attorney before you go public saying they did something wrong.
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Here in Louisiana there isn’t a cut off age for driving. How does that work? I suppose it’s a state by state decision. They only have to pass the eye test in my state. It seems like past a certain age a person should be required to take written and driving tests to test cognitive and physical abilities.

When I bought my new car last year they asked about insurance and license. I don’t know what is typical or even legal.

Sales people are going to sell cars. Should they? That’s their profession. They have an interested buyer. They aren’t going to send a customer away. Even if they would the next person will sell them a car.

I suppose the cancellation clause is the only protection for the elderly if the family feels they should no longer drive. Would a salesperson feel badly if someone sold their elderly family member a car? I’m sure they would but they would know that they were within their legal rights to do so.

I do feel badly for the elderly or their family if they get stuck with a large purchase that they can’t afford. The most important issue is about safety. Some elderly are okay to drive and some aren’t. Still, it’s not illegal to sell them a car. The more cars they sell, the bigger the paycheck. That is their incentive.

My near 98 year old cousin loves pretty cars! She buys new cars, expensive cars! She pays cash! She doesn’t want any notes at her age. She refuses to live with her children.

No one believes that she is that old. She doesn’t look it or act it. If all old people were like her it would be lovely. She’s upbeat and funny. She’s caring, still volunteers at church.

Her problem with driving is speeding tickets! Hahaha

She is not the hunched over little old lady who is creeping down the road. She is fiercely independent. She still cooks and cleans! If I had a guarantee of being like her I wouldn’t have any fear of getting old.
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Needhelpwithmom, all I kept thinking was shame on this guy for selling the car to my Mother. Then I thought he’s probably thinking the same thing about ME! He’s probably thinking shame on that daughter for letting her 92 year old hunched over frail woman purchase a new car!!!! But thank god my Mother came to her senses and cancelled the contract. She NEVER in her whole life would ever impulse by anything!! She would mull everything over for days, weeks, and months. So when she signed on the dotted line I was in complete SHOCK!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Geeeez! She caught the fever of buying a new car. Did she take it for the test drive? LOL. Sorry for laughing but I just had a crazy visual image of her driving a new car off the lot onto the street!

Elaine,

She was probably thinking of how fast she could get to the casino with her new car! Funny but true.
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Consult an attorney, but probably little you can do. In Michigan you have a 3-day look back to cancel any contract. This would include car purchases. I’m going through this with my mother who had her car repossessed in May because she couldn’t make the payments (dealer oversold her and she made an impulse purchase). She has stage 4 lung and liver cancer, diabetes, COPD and MS. Edema in her legs and can barely walk without a walker. She just recently found a small “family” business who agreed to sell her a used car on payments which I’m sure are usurious. The car that was repossessed had multiple dings and scratches, but she blamed them on the size of the car, not her driving ability. I refused to help her find a car, and I will refuse to help her get out of trouble when it all goes sidewise. She is legally a competent adult. I was terribly frustrated with her primary doctor who I contacted for help in having her evaluated for driving competency. The state of Ohio (where she lives) allows doctors to submit to the bureau of licensing a statement that will trigger an evaluation to see if the individual is fit. The doctor refused to take action without permission from my mother, which of course she refused to give. As far as I am concerned the doctor is complicit in any damage or injury that will occur. I am starting to take the social workers’ attitude: people are allowed to make bad choices. Unless and until your father (and my mother) are deemed mentally incompetent -and it’s a high bar- they are allowed to conduct their business as they see fit. Sad but true, and when I think of how many older people are out there driving that shouldn’t be, it horrifies me that we don’t have a better system. As the baby boomers age, it will become more of a public safety concern.
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disgustedtoo Dec 2019
Sadly even when deemed "incompetent", they are still allowed to make choices. First to say this was our EC attorney. He told us we couldn't "drag mom out of the house" when we decided she needed to move to AL/MC but refused to consider moving ANYWHERE. We had to get "creative", because he said guardianship, the facility said no committals. Staff at mom's MC unit says they can't force any of the residents to do what they refuse, even medication/medical treatment. The only thing they can do is get creative and coax the person to comply.

So, even those with dementia have "rights."
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Call a lawyer asap and better business bureau.
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Most states require proof of insurance to drive off the lot. Maybe it’s time for someone to take over his legal and financial for him.
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My dad is 89 years old with dementia too. Dad somehow drove himself to Sears going out of business sale and purchased a huge tractor on his credit card. Dad did not take it out of the store yet. My brother in law went to Sears explaining dad had dementia and should not have purchased the tractor. Sears claimed that the sales person spent quite amount of time with dad and never detected any mental incompatibility. Sears also stated all sales were final. We had no choice but pick up the tractor and suck it up. Most recently Mom and Dad's neighbor called my sister stating that the pavers were looking for payment. What pavers?! I am sure you have all had local driveway pavers come to your house with left over material in their truck. Well they came into the neighborhood and said the home owner (dad) authorized the job. Again we tried to explain dad has dementia and he can't authorize. My BIL told them to take us to court because no judge would appreciate them taking advantage of elderly and their materials have already been paid for by the last guy. This is too recent to know if we will be going to court. I feel your pain. I wish you the best of luck.
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Please get a good lawyer. This is totally wrong what the dealership did. All they wanted was his money
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MaryKathleen Dec 2019
That is all they want of anyone is their money, they aren't charities. They did nothing wrong. Just because a person is "old" and that is very a relative term, is no reason to deny them goods and services. I can remember when I thought 30 was old. That is discrimination. If they wouldn't sell me the truck (I am 85)I could and probably would sue their socks off.
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Find a Lawyer for the Elderly (Elder Lawyer) and take their advice, which hopefully will be to sue then for fraud, reckless endangerment, and abuse of an elder. He clearly was not fit to drive so they risked other people's lives as well as his.
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cetude Dec 2019
If he has a valid Driver's License how can the dealership can be accused of fraud? When my mom was no longer able to drive I simply took her to the motor vehicle registration place and got an identification card. They took away her driver's license, and I also saved some money from my car insurance premiums.
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Car dealerships are not psychiatrists and if they sold the truck with the father owning a valid State-issued driver's license and auto insurance how is this illegal. If you feel your father is not of sound mind, the responsibility is actually yours to not be his guardian/Power of Attorney. If the dealership got your father insured, the responsibility still was left up to you. It sounds like your father has to go to a nursing home or live with you for 24/7 care.

My question is why did you not revoke your father's driver's license. When my mom was no longer able to drive, I took her to motor vehicles and replaced her card with an Identification card. I did that to save some money on my auto insurance. I doubt any vehicle could have been sold to your father without a valid Driver's License.
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disgustedtoo Dec 2019
As at least one other posted, you don't need a valid driver's license to BUY a vehicle, just to drive it. I will agree that perhaps the family should have converted the license to just a state ID, but that is water over the dam.

I also don't agree with saying this man needs to be in a NH. NH is for those who need specialized nursing care. Not everyone qualifies to be in one, certainly not someone who has dementia, walks with a walker but has no real medical issue. It may be time to consider moving to MC soon, but perhaps someone should have tackled the license issue AND take over of the bank account.
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I am so disappointed in some of the responses in this post. How can anyone cheer on the unethical treatment of an elderly man, legal or not? To quote Gandhi, “the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members.” By that standard, we failed this man horribly. And on a site that really is meant to champion the care of the aged and their caregivers, it becomes more disturbing.

With even minimal critical thinking skills, I have to consider that the dealership knew exactly what was going on: he is virtually blind, has difficulty walking even with the walker, not clear on his address, hadn’t driven in years. If they were completely unaware of his functional status then why didn’t they take him for a test drive? Why were 2 forms forged? And why did they decide to have him sign an arbitration agreement before he left? Sure all this can be explained away but it warrants further investigation. No one is suggesting that the dealership refuse to sell him a vehicle so that argument is simple minded BS. What they should have done is go a little bit above and beyond in ensuring this man’s safety instead of just covering their legal liabilities.

At what point in time did it become more admirable for a business to make profit than it does for them to do the right thing?
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BarbBrooklyn Dec 2019
I dont think anyone is saying that what the dealership did was admirable. But it was typical, respectable and legal. Auto dealerships are not known for their high moral standards.

This adult child's best bet is to get politicians and the media on board with shaming this dealership into eating the loss.
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In our state you can't drive a car off a dealer lot without a valid driver's license and proof of insurance. Dealer probably didn't do anything illegal according to local law, but calling attention to the situation through the local media might change the lack of apparent ethics.
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AlanBingham Dec 2019
You don't need a drivers license to buy a vehicle, only to drive it on the road. Dealerships sell vehicles that are never driven on the road (think farm, factory) and also sell to corporations that do not have licenses. However, what happened in this instance is morally wrong and unethical.
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How did Dad get to the dealership?
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I disagree with all that exonerate the dealer.

The auto dealers have dealt with many people many times; are very experienced. They can spot a mark instantly. They know just how to take advantage. They do. In this case they did. Every car dealership in the U. S. of A. should, by federal law, have a big giant sign that says, “We are Crooked as a Dogs’ Hind Leg.”
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MaryKathleen Dec 2019
Buyer Beware. As a woman I have had to deal with automobile dealers and repair shops all of my life, I don't believe they did anything wrong. It is up to the buyer to be cautious.

How are they going to know he is blind in one eye? How do they know I have had cataract surgery? There is no way they can know that.
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I just had a thought, why don't you call APS and have them go talk to your dad. They are trained to spot mental incompetence and if they say it is obvious and he needs more care that retirement facility, you might be able to take that to the dealership owner and negotiate. If they say he is fine, then you can not expect a car salesman to get that he should not be selling a car to this man.

For everyone that worries about baby boomers making our streets unsafe, I live in a snowbird city and texters have been the cause of increased accidents, not our yearly influx of retirees. It is ability not age that should be considered, remember, we are all getting old if we are lucky. Becareful what you wish for, you may just get it.
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hhmclee1,
What happened with your dad is appalling and unethical. For a few bucks the car dealership recklessly endangered countless lives.
You've had many sage answers and I can't add to them, other than to say, absolutely go to the press and social media and get as much coverage as possible.
Many businesses are scared sh**less of a bad Yelp review.
I wish you strength in navigating this ordeal.
R27
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While it is rather unscrupulous what was done (has anyone EVER dealt with a car dealer who doesn't practice some kind of questionable behavior?), there really isn't anything "wrong" about what was done, other than morally, but as others have said, these people are not in the business of assessing your capabilities.

My concern is why are YOU expected to cover the damages? You indicated they procured insurance for him/the truck. Is the deductible that high? If it is, perhaps you can find another shop who can fix it for less (dealers are notoriously more expensive to get repairs, etc done.)

Once fixed, sell it yourself, without returning it to them. Very often you can get a better price with private sale (they generally offer a LOT less than the value of the car, so they can make it salable and cover their costs plus make a profit.) If nothing else, it takes these scum out of the picture.

Meanwhile, you'll have to figure out how to cover his expenses until you sell it. Even at a loss, you can likely recoup a lot of the cost. I would highly recommend you find a way to take over his finances as well. If you have DPOA, NOW is the time to put it into action! If you don't have it, he *might* still be able to grant it - depends on what EC atty decides when talking with him privately. Otherwise, you'll have to pursue guardianship (more expense you don't need.)

At the least, you CAN apply to be rep payee of his SS - that would take his access to it out of the picture. If you do this, call a local office, not the main SS number. Others have said this is difficult, but it was actually the easiest part of taking over my mother's finances! I brought a lot of paperwork to show them, including how I was managing everything else already, but they never looked at any of it. They asked questions, sent notice to her and me, and then just had to wait for approval (they DO check your background!) Other than my time and gas/parking, it didn't cost me a dime.
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In hindsight... Since everything happened so fast, you probably could have put a stop payment on the check. The dealership would have undoubtedly contacted you (or your dad) to inform you that payment did not go through. Yes, they could sue you for payment, but they wouldn't do that right away if you negotiated in good faith.

In reality, though, I think this could possibly work out in your favor. If your father truly did drive off in a brand new F-150 for $20k, he got a deal! According to KBB, a new 2019 F-150 bare-bones model with zero options would have a Fair Market Price of about $28k. My guess is, though, that the dealership sold the truck as used (I bought mine used with <4k miles on it), so you should not have to pay the depreciation they claim you do.

I know it's a hassle, but the best thing to do might be to get the truck repaired. Assuming the dealership didn't just sell your dad liability insurance (minimum required in most states), pay the deductible and get it repaired. If the insurance does not include collision coverage, then you'd have to pay the full $4k to get it repaired. Even with the additional $4k, you may still be able to sell it for $24k and come out even.

It seems to me that you just want this to go away and get most or all of your dad's money back. If that's the case, I'd get the truck repaired and negotiate with the dealership or try to sell it on the open market. You'll always get more selling to a private party, but it takes more work on your part.

If you want to start a crusade against the dealership, then keep in mind that it'll likely end up taking more of your time and money than is probably worth the effort.
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