Why are they entitled to stay home, no matter what?
I'm always so scared to post on here, afraid to be told off because I'm still struggling with the same things, with zero change.
But this is Canada. We are back on a waiting list for a geriatric assessment. I think this is the fourth time, but it may even be the fifth.
We finally got a social worker who is supposed to do family mediation, but will only deal with certain issues.
Why isn't there someone who can come in and really help us??? She has seriously unreasonable expectations of me, and I have checked out of the entire situation, really. I mostly avoid her completely.
Suddenly my brother is complaining that I *got* the house. Do you want it??? Come take it, give me back my money, and I am ******* out of here!!! But of course, he doesn't want that, he just wants more money.
Mom was just in the hospital for 6 days. It was wonderful. She's been home 3 days and keeps trying to push my buttons, like she really wants a fight. I'm not responding. It's so stressful.
I really want a life where I'm not waiting for people (or pets) to die just so I can have peace!
I get these emails, from this site, that say "Staying home is more important than ever." Why? And at what cost to the family?
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I am so sorry that you, too, got a female that should never have had children. My mom shouldn't have but, I am happy she did. As I am sure we all are.
If the paperwork states until she decides to leave, that sucks.
Can your husband install interior doors that keep her out of the kitchen? Can you install a camera to catch her pulling her crap? Can you just keep putting the trash can back for her dirty depends? Maybe a cardboard box that only hold a days worth that doesn't matter if she throws it out, that you could set outside the door she throws stuff out of?
I just can't imagine dealing with this. I know the hateful things my mom has pulled and no doubt she would do something like this given the chance. I don't know what I would do, honestly, I am afraid going to jail would be in my future :-/
Reading through your responses, it does sound to me like your mother has dementia. Get her placed. Trying to save the property isn't worth you dealing with this mess.
I did homecare mostly for elderly for almost 25 years. I can tell you for a fact that behavior is the number one reason why most families place their elder in facility care. They simply cannot tolerate the lying, the verbal abuse, and the stubborness. Whether or not these behaviors are dementia-related is irrelevant. Most people just refuse to live with this and rightly so. Incontinence and hoarding is the other reasons why an elder gets placed.
It sounds to me like your mother has dementia. The lying then throwing garbage around and telling people it's you doing it, is a pretty good indicator.
You know her better than we do though. If you think it's her just being nasty to get attention and pity from others, see what happens if you just ignore her. But ultimately, you will likley have to place her.
We had a meeting today with a paramedic, who is sending in a new referral for geriatric psych. She told me that she doesn't think Mom is "alert or aware" and is likely suffering from dementia. She did say she is qualified to do the test but didn't have anything with her today, and gave me her card to call and she will come do it if it doesn't happen otherwise.
Rural: hard to get aides + Mom runs them off.. But correct me if wrong.
Mom has the right to refuse care.
Yet Cinder, has rights too.
- as property owner, has the right that a 'boarder' (family or not) maintains a certain level of hygiene.
- as a free human being, not to provide full caretaking for another (family or not)
It's certainly complicated.
Yet a common sense solution somehow must find a way.
I think your mother could be mean AND have dementia and/or mental illness. Leaving her dirty diapers in the kitchen??? That's just plain disgusting and no person in their right mind would do such a thing. Did you always have a bad relationship or is this new?
I would focus on keeping her safe and otherwise ignoring all her other nonsense. Look up how to set boundaries and how to grey rock (something about not engaging with their negativity).
Is there any way to get more help? I think your mom might need more help than you think she does. I'm kind of stuck on the dirty diaper thing and just think - this is NOT normal. If you can get some assistance of any kind with someone being with mom - you get out of the house as much as you can! Is she ok to be left alone? Are you living your life or just taking care of an ungrateful mother?
Has she ever been diagnosed for dementia or memory impairment? Do you have an appointment set up for her assessment? Is there any other path you can take? Call her doctor and ask for advice? Or some kind of social services for the elderly? You're going to have to get someone involved to look into this, hopefully VERY soon.
Take some deep breaths and then take some action.
This forum is here for you to discuss issues. If you find a post is offensive in any way, disregard it. Sometimes there are misunderstandings. You are welcome to explain the situation to clarify what was said.
Best wishes on the situation with the house and I hope that you can resolve this quickly.
Caregiving is really tough and we understand that you would prefer not to do the hands on care. Hopefully, you will be able to find a facility to care for your loved one soon.
We read regularly about very unpleasant elders who enjoy making things difficult for their carer, insane though it seems - ie “just mean”. And then there are others with increasing dementia or mental illness. If OP didn’t expect this when she made the arrangements, it could be either.
The dirty diapers in the kitchen could be an indicator, either way, if there is a suitable container for them, easily accessible by mother, and she is choosing to leave them around. The same for the ‘lies’ about the garbage that “OP puts outside *her* entrance”.
If mother is in fact ‘just mean’, OP is ‘justified’ in getting out and putting herself first. If it’s dementia or mental illness, perhaps OP isn’t “justified” in the same way. But if OP has lost all tolerance for the behaviors, why should she be forced to cope? I wouldn’t tolerate it, myself.
Perhaps the best option for OP remains to move out. As we often say, sometimes things have to get worse before there is a solution. The ‘right to rot’ for mother, versus slavery for daughter. Either way, sympathy is definitely needed.
Care issue is my 'thing'.
And setting reasonable boundaries.
I am stuck at this;
"Dirty diapers in the kitchen sink, now she will leave them in the laundry room which is the only passageway to her side of the house from mine".
So I am getting a clearer picture. Mom is not able to self-care. Whether she has or doesn't have hoarder mental illness, some sort of cognitive decline or due to physical mobility problems just can't access the bins to dispose of incontinence items - the result is the same. She cannot self-care adequately & hygieically. This awful grey area is what many families are stuck in.
Protective services can visit. The bar is set low for being deemed capable. People are legally allowed to choose to live in a dirty way & choose to refuse home help services.
The 'Right to Rot' a Doctor told me.
If living alone, it can escalate from untidy, unsanitory to vermin. Falls are common. Then the Fire Dept get called & eventually cart the person out.
Another adult living there complicates matters. Especially if they are cleaning up (as any normal human would).
I need to think here.
Join me for a cuppa while we think-tank.. ☕
That's true about people having the 'Right to Rot' but when it's a multiple dwelling house the people on the other side, or upstairs/downstairs will get sick from the filth and dirty diapers being left around. They will also get the pests and vermin in their place even if they are clean in their home. There surely has to be some kind of tenant or property co-owner rights. Maybe the OP can force her mother to sell and buy out her ownership in the property so she can get away from her.
It is very unlikely that either document would commit you to providing ‘full service’, like meals served on trays while she watches TV. So just stop. Do what you think is justified, and block your ears to complaints. I always recommend trade-quality ear plugs, they help a lot – and say a lot about what you are willing to hear.
It is very possible that the best way out of this is to leave. She stays in the house, you visit to check its condition to protect your asset. If the condition gets bad (or in fact her condition gets bad) she may go higher up the list for care very quickly. At present she seems to have no condition requiring high priority, but that can change. This is not dependent on an assessment of your mother. It’s up to you.
Where would you go? Anywhere – including getting a job as a live-in carer to someone better behaved than mother. At present mother thinks that she calls all the shots because of what you signed. When she finds that this is not the case, it’s possible that her behavior may change a lot.
Yes you made an agreement, but it has turned very bad on you. You didn’t sign up for this! Slavery is not legal in Canada, you are not stuck with it. Get the document you signed, then go to a lawyer.
"Full service" that's funny. I'd throw a loaf of bread and a water bottle at this person and walk away. The two words in my mouth would be 'SUE ME!'. That's what I'm doing here. I left after my mother's tirade a couple days ago that crushed me to tears and haven't been back since. She's called a couple dozen times and left messages, but I really don't care. I might stop in there today, I might not. My sibling can go and check on her and my stuff.
In the USA, it has to be an actual diagnosis and doctors orders before it can be enforced.
Have you called your mom out for putting dirty diapers in the kitchen? Frankly, I would nut out on anyone that pulled that crap. She would be scared to pull that stunt again.
Be sure and take photos and document her behavior. This isn't just meanness, this is mental illness or dementia. Nobody in their right mind does this crap.
Prayers that you can find a way for this to change, whatever that looks like.
I agree with you. However, it is possible that the dirty diapers in the kitchen and the button-pushing to instigate a fight could be plain, old spite and not dementia or mental illness.
My mother is a very spiteful, petty, mean, and jealous person. This is her nature.
Awhile back I told the story of how I was leaving for my friend's wedding. I was loading my luggage into the car and my mother starts with the chest pains and the could I just take her to the ER. She was determined that I was going to miss this wedding or at the very least she was going to ruin it for me. This is her M.O. and has been my entire life. This is why I did not have her at my second wedding. It was expensive and my in-laws paid for it. I wasn't going to risk her ruining it like she ruined the first one.
She tried for days to push my buttons and instigate because she wanted a great, big blow-out fight. She didn't get one, so resorted to the classic faking a heart attack move. The wedding was absolutely gorgeous and I had a wonderful time. No actual heart attacks either.
My point is my mother did not have dementia and it wasn't a case of mental illness either. It was plain, old spite. She was jealous that she wasn't invited so she was pulling out all the stops to make sure her scapegoat couldn't or it would at least be ruined.
The OP's mother could very well just be spiting her and the way to put down this kind of behavior is to ignore them. Deny them any attention at all.
You're getting the emails about staying home being more important than ever because the people sending you these emails is trying to promote homecare. Ignore them.
You ask yourself, 'at what cost to the family?'. Well, that would be up to you to decide what the cost to the family will be because you're the one saddled with the miserable burden of being the sole caregiver.
How high a price are you willing to pay?
You can walk away and force the state to step in and take over your mother's care.
If you "got" the house like your brother claims you did, then it's your right to do what you want with it. You do not have to live in caregiver slavery because of a house. I don't know what your rules look like in Canada but here it's different. We have a Medicaid look-back period of five years so someone entering a care facility can't just sign over assets like houses and cars or there's a penalty that has to get paid back.
If you put money into that house, you most certainly should recap that, then walk away. It's not worth it for you to stay.
Your mother is definitely looking for a fight. Ignore her. I know it's hard but do it. Then make arrangements to leave. Let your brother take over, but you go.
As for the button-pushing tell her straight today that she either cuts the crap or you will go to a motel and she will be left to fend for herself.
No one has to tolerate or live in abuse. That includes you. Good luck.
And you are entitled to eff off out of it and leave her to make her own arrangements. What's stopping you is your - I have to say it - unaccountable decision to hand your brother $400K up front, which has left you flat broke.
What does your documentation say about selling the house from under her? Have you looked into that option? Who has to agree before the house can be sold?
PS I also noticed that what spurred your mother to transfer the house to you and your brother was not the practicality of the arrangement as such, but her absolute determination to disinherit her third child. Mm. Are you going to say you didn't know what you were letting yourself in for?
Mom has physical needs, she uses a walker, has rods and stuff in her spine from tumour removal surgery, I never meant to say she had no other needs than not wanting to fetch her own food. I meant that she *is* capable of walking to the kitchen and making herself a plate. I got rid of the table because she was just covering it with junk.
What I signed was for her to stay in the home as long as she is able. I never signed up to be her servant. I never signed up to not be able to cook a proper meal because the kitchen is full of shitty diapers and garbage all. the. time. No matter what cleaning I do, or hire someone to do, she has is totally messed up again in half a day. When I say full of garbage, I mean there s no surface area uncovered. Have you seen hoarders? If no one was cleaning up after her, that's what it would be.
The whole purpose of me buying the house was so that it would be kept in the family, not sold. It's an acreage. My Dad wanted his ashes spread here.
I'm hoping to get the assessment so that I will know where I stand.
There is another house on the property. It needs some work, but I would fix it up (needs about $20K of work) and stay in there if it bought me peace, but I can only leave IF the assessment says she CAN take care of herself. I've even thought of renting the whole house out, she already pays $500 for her share, the rest to someone else, I could get $1500+ for it, and traveling for a year. But I can't even do that until we get this assessment, then I can take it and the documents to a lawyer to find out what my rights are.
That doesn't obligate the daughter to be a caregiver, does it?
The mother can hire care.
What if you just could not care for Mom, what would happen?
Say Covid wrecked your brain, or both your arms stopped working, aliens abducted you, you won a round the world cruise trip, leaving next week..
Say you broke your ankle. What would you do?
You are cash poor but house rich. Is there a reason why you can't pull some cash out of the house and use that money to hire someone to help you help your mother?
After all, she did give you 400K. Why not pull 100K-200K out to pay for help. You are sitting on a house that presumably should go up in value in the long run. Sure, your brother got the 400K in cash, but from the sound of it, he might just squander all his inheritance.
Your mom.gave you the house with the understanding that she could stay as long as possible. It may not be the best arrangement, but that was what you agreed to, so make the best of it. Let's honor your agreement and keep her in her home as long as possible.
So this basically is all about you attempting to evict her because you now regret the choice you made, and your brother being unsympathetic and telling you you've made your bed... am I missing anything?
You next statement "In Canada, at least in Ontario, you can't just go and pay for one. You have to go through your family doc - they have to agree that one is warranted and refer you to a specialist" is confusing. You don't go through a doctor in order to access long term care (nursing homes), you MUST go through Home and Community Care Support Services (used to be called LHIN and before that CCAC... we do like to change up the name🙄)
https://healthcareathome.ca/home
I'm not going to comment on the home because her assets (or lack of assets) have no bearing on her access to care.... whatever is going on there is a legal issue. What will make a difference is that she has a safe, stable home with a built in care giver, meaning she will not be given a high priority when it comes to needing home care or long term placement.
The order of events:
Dad died.
Mom still needed care.
Brother wanted to place her in a home and sell the farm.
Brother needed money.
Mom was going to take out a reverse mortgage to give him a pile of cash.
Hubby and I were going to rent out our home for 2 years and move in with Mom so she could stay home.
Mom decided to transfer the property to me now, while still living, so that her other 25+ years estranged child couldn't contest the will at any time and tie everything up in probate. So she spoke to a lawyer and did everything legally. Including putting in a line about her staying home as long as she is able.
Which is fair. I don't want to make her leave. My heart breaks thinking about her in a home, lonely... But she is just so mean.
I think that saying home is probably best was because of COVID lockdowns. Now its because COVID made a CNAs/aides in short supply.
Sorry, the US medical is so much different than yours. To get parents out of our homes is hard too once they are there. Did brother own half of Moms house or was it a future inheritance. Here doing that would not be wise because of Medicaid. There is no inheritance until the person dies. A house can be sold and the money spent on the persons care. There's lots more involved.
We have some Canadian's as members, maybe they can help. Have you tried the "Grey rock method". You literally ignore her. You do what you need to for her, but do not engage.
Their niche is indicated by their name: agingcare, and the tagline that spells out “in home care, assisted living, and caregiver support.”
After a while, I stop noticing the advertising, but obviously this one hit a sensitive area for you.
You may be able to edit your topics or subscriptions under settings so that you receive fewer emails. Or ignore the emails and just visit the forum when you like. You can mark them as junk and only see them when you check your spam folder.
Canada’s all inclusive healthcare system sounds so nice from the outside. I’m sorry to hear that the bureaucracy is giving you unneeded grief. Like the USA’s HMO predictable billing vs gatekeeper access issue only more so.
Why would anyone "Tell you off" when you're clearly suffering enough already? I'm sorry you are in such an awful position.
I wonder if the propaganda about "Staying home is more important than ever." isn't because in home help is more expensive than managed care? More commissions to be had from such care, etc. And continued propaganda about "deadly viruses" and all the groupthink being pushed about hiding out at home to "stay safe"? I don't know, but I'd ignore it, personally.
I truly hope you can get mom placed SOON, take your life back, and breathe again my friend. It's too much to be going thru all this, and also be thwarted by a medical system that doesn't work properly. Here we complain if we have to wait a month for a routine, non urgent appointment to be scheduled simply because we're impatient. If we have an urgent need, we'll be seen right away, at least with my health insurance.
There are no commissions to incentivize home care.
There are programs in each province to encourage living at home as long as feasible. The program in BC is called Better at Home and Dad has benefited from it too.
Cinder needs to ask why her Mum is being put back on the bottom of the wait list when an appointment is canceled, that is not how things are usually handled, unless the family is doing the canceling.
The towels and sheets are amazing too.
I wonder if you can tell me what happens in Canada on that system when a person reached their last years with some diagnosed dementia and cannot care for themselves, but have no children?
Also, here in the USA, when we take an elder into our home it can be difficult to removed them and put them in placement owing to the fact that here you are considered a tenant, once in a home, whether you have a rental agreement, or whether you pay or not.
Given I can't know that laws of your country I just feel helpless to have any clue what to tell you. Today it isn't unusual for someone with good care to live to the age of 100. By then their child may be approaching his or her 80s after all.
Would love to know a bit more about your system there.
My specific situation here is that I sold my home for 600K, bought out my brother's half of mom's house (valued at 800K, so 400K to him) and paid off my outstanding mortgage of 200K. So there's no money left. This is now my home. She lives here with us. I [regrettably] signed legal documents, which I have no way of knowing right now just how bound to them (and to her) I am, unless and until she gets this geriatric assessment! She's been on the waitlist for it a few times, and then it just gets cancelled. In Canada, at least in Ontario, you can't just go and pay for one. You have to go through your family doc - they have to agree that one is warranted and refer you to a specialist...and if it gets cancelled, you have to begin the process all over again. I'm completely stuck here, not able to make any sort of move, until the assessment is done. Then I can take that to a lawyer, or whoever, I don't even know.
Here, if someone is living in your home, they are a tenant only if they have a completely separate area and pay market value rent. But if you share common areas, they are just a border, and you can remove them at any time. But since I signed papers saying she can live here as long as she is able, I can't make her leave. Unless she is no longer able.
And honestly, I would rather have some intervention here to make life more manageable and let her stay here, but have better groundrules in place.