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I was struck by this while reading the answers to another question. It appears, to me, that many of our parents (those in 70 - 100 year old range) have this sense of entitlement, especially when it comes to being cared for and/or being controlling of us and in some cases, their grandchildren. I know my parents did not and would not have been the primary caregivers for their elders but they certainly do think that we should be. In my case, it is not so bad as my dad is great as he is my mom's primary caregiver and I'm like Tonto - his faithful side-kick. Why is that? I'm also amazed at how many of those being cared for (and it appears women are in the majority here) are narcissistic and mean? And when we are in the 'sandwich' position (elder parents on one side and children and grandchildren on the other side) they expect us to do for them and NOT for our children and grandchildren, when I know they never even would have considered that! Is it perhaps because of the age they are living to now....people used to die younger. They used to call us the 'me' generation but I don't think so. I see this so often on this web site. Any thoughts, comments? Perhaps if we can talk this out we might be able to understand some of their behaviors better.

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Some have a sense of entitlement, and some don't.

I recall overhearing my mom and her sister (5 years apart in age) when they were in their late 30s/early 40s discussing their old age. My Aunt said, "after all I've done, my girls darn well better take care of me when I'm old!" and my mother said, "Oh, I wouldn't want my kids to be taking me to the toilet and stuff. I'd want someone paid to do that." These women are now in their 90s and they still seem to have these attitudes.

Yes, there are WAY more seniors who live with chronic conditions earlier generations would have died from, and therefore who need care, than there ever have been in our history. We don't really know if this older generation is different from previous ones -- we've never had a population like this.

I think this particular website has attracted a large number of people caring for narcissistic parents. It is a place for speaking frankly and once the subject came up word has gotten out. Also web searches bring people here. So I don't think what we see here is necessarily an accurate reflection of the proportion of folks with narcissism. Caregivers of pleasant, easy-going, undemanding parents are just less likely to seek a forum.
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I know there must be some elders that aren't narcissistic *sses like my mother. I had very limited contact with my mom from 1978(left for college) until 2012 when she called me screaming in pain from osteoarthritis.I am an only child and she just seems to think I should do it all. She never had to care for her parents,and I know she would have never moved her mom in with her, they barely spoke and I never saw them as much as shake hands,a couple of b*tches.I guess it was the morphine but my mother actually admitted to me that when she had spare time she would work overtime to make money to get jewelry rather than spend time with me, her only child.That really made me feel special.She was also a bully and emotionally abusive.I am all that stands between her and a NH.She has no idea how her life would change if it weren't for me.Right now she lives like Lady Astor, I even clean up after her 2 dogs(I like them) take them to the groomer.But it just floors me that she thinks that this is my "duty". I do things for her she would never have done for her mother or father.She really is a snob and a hypochondriac.I have really had to set limits with her behavior or I would have gone nuts.I read so many times on this forum this same behavior, and it's from people that don't have dementia as an excuse, this is just their personality.I don't have an answer.And as mentioned above we really don't have anything to compare this current social situation with.People living longer with chronic illnesses,no quality of life.I have poa,dpoa, and medical poa but I am going to bring up the subject of including a living will with my mom.Make it really specific.I know her, she would freak out if she woke up on a ventilator and I can't see the point of extending misery by having a feeding tube placed.Right now she goes to church every week, PT twice a week , has art lessons coming up in Jan. To me she has quality of life at this point, eats anything she wants.I just really appreciate this forum because it helps me ventilate things I wouldn't dare say out loud but it is nice to know that I am not the only one that has feelings of "I can't take it anymore".
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I wonder if it is a 'sense of entitlement' or is it fear of the unknown with our parent(s). When one loses their independence, such as when they no longer can drive, they start to feel trapped, and will start to impose on the child who is closest to them.

Neither of my parents were Caregivers to their own parents, both sets of my grandparents lived out-of-state. How I wished my parents had hands-on care of their own parents so they can understand the frustrations and stress I am going through. Then and only then maybe they would have planned better for the *what ifs* in their life. Like what if Dad could no longer drive, who would drive them? For 6 years I was their wheels... I had to put those wheels to a screeching halt couple months ago because of my own health issues.... my Dad can't understand why I can't drive them.... [sigh]
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I can't answer your question of "why" but I can definitely concur with the perception that children are "supposed" to care for their parents. I'm reminded of a conversation I had years ago while getting a haircut. I distinctly remember getting the proverbial look of disdain when I announced, in my mid 20's that I did NOT want children. The reaction: "Who's going to take care of you when you get old?" I was flabbergasted! Maybe it was my years of already having to care for a narcissistic legally blind father since the age of six that infuriated me, but I remember finding it odd that it was the ASSUMPTION that that's what children were for.

I remember responding "Whomever I decide to pay..."

Maybe it's a cultural thing. I do know that some cultures would find it utterly repulsive to place an aging parent in a facility, but I don't think children should be charged with the responsibility of caring for an aging parent or made to feel guilty if they struggle with WANTING to if the situation arises.

I feel a soapbox coming, but it's not fair to assume that the kids SHOULD or WILL care for aging parents. It should be a choice rather than a demand.
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I am so glad you put boundaries on the transportation situation. I am currently getting over a cold I caught from a person in the waiting room of the eye MD my mother wanted to go to. Because I didn't say no to taking her to an appt. that was going to have me driving home in the dark (my night vision is shot) in holiday traffic I just about had a nervous breakdown.40 mile at night on a very crowded interstate in Christmas traffic,she couldn't understand what my problem was,grief! So now,even though she thinks I am a b*tch ,I have made it very clear to her no more MD appts. after 12 noon(she was about to sh*t in her pants to go to this exam,hollering about her macular degeneration as if the MD was going to cure it which he can't)I knew it wasn't an emergency,he even told her nothing had progressed and come back in a year.Also, if anyone so much as clears their throat in a waiting room we are LEAVING.This particular appt. at the eye MD there was a woman that I swear was trying to cough her lung out.I didn't let my mother touch anything, not even the magazines. I opened all the doors while we were there and less than 48 hrs. later I woke up with a horrible sore throat and congestion. I should be happy my mom didn't come down with this.I try to be proactive and prevent things and she just sees me as being controlling.Yes, I am trying to control whether or not we have a car wreck or come down with pneumonia,I am so evil.I am just dealing with a person that was always a bully to me and had to have control or else and now the tables have turned.I have to accept she is never going to have insight about her behavior and just deal with how she is at present in as healthy a way for both of us as I can.It continues to be a work in progress.
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I've given a lot of thought to this question, but I can't claim to have any real answer. I think there's a lot of truth in what jeannegibbs said, that we've never had a generation that lived so long in such a state of frailty and impairment. Most of them never expected to be dependent or infirm, so never planned for that eventuality. When it happens, they look to the only people left around who are younger and more capable and from whom they can claim assistance based on past sacrifices or whatever. Grown children have trouble refusing their parents, especially knowing the parent has nowhere else to turn. Unfortunately, the more it happens, the more it becomes the new normal, and something everyone begins to expect. The cultural assumption now is that grown children will be called upon to care for their parents and will do it, regardless of the personal cost. The gives the parents' claims extra validity and makes it even harder to resist the pressure. I think our society also supports seniors in feeling entitled to keep every aspect of their lifestyle intact - look at social security, medicare, senior discounts, mandatory disability accommodations. The idea that you should have to give something up because you're not capable of providing it for yourself has become culturally unacceptable, at least if you're over 65.

My mother always said she didn't want to be a burden on her children. However, it turned out to be more acceptable than the alternative, which would be giving up her expectations about the amenities of her lifestyle. She absolutely must have at least two shopping trips per week, at least one trip to the library, miscellaneous other errands such as meals brought in, her house decorated for holidays, her flag put up and taken down, the bird feeders in her yard filled regularly, etc. As well as the doctors' visits, physical care when sick, help paying bills and organizing paperwork, the genuine caregiving "needs." My mother has forgotten all about not wanting to be a burden. Her comfort and convenience are way more important than that. And she has actually fallen back on the old rationalization "I did it for you when you were little" which of course she did not. As kids, we took what we were given - we did not have this set of fixed expectations about how everything should be.

I hope our generation does better in not expecting the next generation to satisfy our every wish and whim for as long as we may live. I myself will have to accept changes and losses, since I don't have children to be a burden to.
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I thought about what Jeanne wrote and she is right. I know a lot of older people and most of them live independently or in assisted living. Many still drive, even though some of them maybe shouldn't. I know only a few who are staying home with a caregiver except for spouses, where one is caring for the other. Sometimes I do run into another caregiver at the grocery store. We know each other by the contents of our carts. :)

So much of how we feel depends on our own experiences. Some of us here had the misfortune of being the children of people who feel entitled. It can cause deep resentment, because we are people and not objects to be used.
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Just for the record, my mom has no sense of entitlement and is grateful for everything that we do.

I agree with Jeanne, lots of folks on this board have extremely narcissistic parents, which is why they need to come here to vent. The folks who have more functional families ( siblings all help out, no one trying to grab money, mom is ccooperative when her loving children tell her it's time to moveto AL) don't need to vent except during emergencies.
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I will never forget a conversation I had with my fiancee's dad. He fell, broke a rib, I took him to the emergency room, they confirmed it, his oxygen was at 82. He had to stay overnight. You know what? I knew he was in good hands and it was the nicest night I had ever had with my guy. It felt like a new beginning. I could breath again. Suddenly there were a flurry of calls from the hospital. He was demanding his son come to see him, wondered where I was (loving my OWN life and the respite for a brief moment), threats to check himself out of the hospital AMA. I wanted him to be treated, one, to rest, secondly, but was well aware that after a few days he is entitled to a lot more from the hospital as far as options from there. His doctor in the advanced care unit actually had no problem telling us that he was hiding from our dad, because our dad became so awful. He just wanted his home. But, you know what? After the colossal fit he threw, he was checked out and they stuck a big oxygen tank in my van while I drove back home, so deflated.
About a month later, I brought up the fact that I was about to have a baby and already had another baby to take care of, asking him if he could hire a caregiver for him because I was going to be very overwhelmed.

His answer?

"WHY? You are here."

That was the worst feeling in the world. When did I become his servant? He is always asking where my fiancee is. And if he can't do for his dad it falls on me. And now things are only getting more care-intensive and I have a beautiful 3 month old and an 18 month old. I always thought it was supposed to work the other way. The babies have priority. I am learning the hard way that that doesn't happen sometimes. I HATE my life as is.
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Your babies are your most important concern and you tell him that. He can walk, talk and feed himself, remind him the babies cannot and they need you. Set up the boundaries now and hold to them hard. Oh, if he can be trusted, while you are cooking make him be a caregiver for the babies, at least the older one. Say to him 'I know you want to help out here and give us a hand, so why don't you play with the little one while I give the baby her bath/feed her (anything)'. Then plop the 18 month old next to him on the couch with a toy , take the baby and walk out of the room...(at this point I think I would be in another room where I could watch what was going on, just to be on the safe side). Let him take care of someone for a little while and 18 months old is a great age. Let us see what he TRULY is made of. Of course if he has dementia throw out all prior advice of leaving him with the babies once in awhile. Hugs to all, Linda
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As soon as I try to do dishes, I hear this chorus of "NO's". It comes rapid fire. NONONONONONONONOO... And I run in and there is nothing really wrong.

As a result, sometimes dishes build. I just want out. I DID NOT want to be a part of a longstanding precedent that was there long before me that I can never understand. I am so, so over all of it. I just want to leave because of it. It is NEVER fair to engage someone in the fairy tale of just a normal life and building a family and then bring along the elder parent who will ALWAYS. ALWAYS be asking for your partner and they obliging over children and you. I HATE IT.
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I did want you all to know that I am a caregiver also and have a family with 2 grown children and 1 grandchild and I have told ALL of them that I have LTC insurance and I want to be placed in a facility should I become incapacitated. I have been helping take care of my mom (who is in end-stage ALZ) for at least 7 to 8 years. I wouldn't put any of them through this! and have already started to make arrangements so it won't happen and I told them I don't want them to feel guilty about it either.
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I wonder how many of us here will live to be the same age as our parents? I know I will never reach my Mom's age of 97, nor my Dad's age of 93. Right now I am hoping to reach 75, if that :(
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CarlaCB AMEN!
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I want to at least outlive my mom by 30 minutes.
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Oh gosh, Texarkana, I had to chuckle at that post :)
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worriedaboutdad: Your children come first, your children come first, your children come first. Tell your fiance & dad that's the law.
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Here's a good question to pose on this post: Are we living longer or dying slower? My MIL- mid stage dementia would cry over & over that she wanted to die & my SIL, in her frustration, would tell her to just stop taking her meds. MIL takes fists full of meds that keep her going. Go back half century & she probably would not have made it to the age she is now -90. Sorry to sound cold about this but it's true. However, my own & parents died in their 70's; both took many meds for chronic illnesses too. So you never know.
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I think all of these new meds are allowing people to live longer....and when I hear of researchers saying they want to push our life expectency to 110 and older I ask WHY? I don't want to live that long and just because you can it doesn't mean that you should! I look at my mama lying in bed in end stage ALZ and I know for sure I don't want that....shouldn't it be quality of life? not just quantity?
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Utzie50, that's an excellent question.... I think people are *dying slower* [good choice of words]. I know both my parents never thought they would live to be in their mid-90's.

Good heavens, living to 110+... that would mean their grown children who are 85 to 90 would be trying to care for their parent(s). Are researchers crazy? What great-great-grandchild wants to Caregive for 3 generations?
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My mother is the poster child for the narcissicistic old lady. She was angry with me for going away to college, going farther away to get married, having children, and having a career. I told her point blank years ago that I absolutely would not leave all that because she would not plan for old age. She insisted she would never get that old, that she'd never need help, and that she'd be carried out of her house in a pine box. Also, don't I dare have any black people take care of her.

Really? Yes, really. Well guess what. She is in care at a wonderful place where most of the care workers are black. I don't care if somebody is a moose with tinfoil antlers if they will take good care of mom.

She created this whole fantasy before I moved her 1800 miles, that she was going to live with me and never lift another finger. She had told everybody that I was going to wait on her hand & foot. She would have very angry times when in her apartment, and then in the nursing home that I did not have her in my house. She didnt understand anymore. I never once ever said she would live with us, but it didn't matter.
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I've been thinking about this post alot. My grandmother, who was born in 1884 in Ireland, was certainly not someone who could have been said to have a sense of entitlement. She had a sense, rather, of the way things were done. So when she fell and broke her hip in 1965, she lay back on her hospital pillow and said to her lady friends " I'm going to be an invalid. My daughters will care for me". I have no doubt that that was how things would have played out 50 years earlier. But my mother, who had three young children, found out about this new thing called "rehab", which was in part fueled by the availability of Medicare. Rehab? My grandmother never heard of such a thing. People forcing her to stand and walk, after hip surgery? Outrageous!

Grandma was in rehab about 2 miles from where we lived. We went to see her once a week, during which time she berated my mom for putting her there. My told her, we can't take care of you unless you can walk. Grandma sucked it up and learned to walk with a walker, and eventually went back to her little apartment in the Bronx.

My point is this. Our parents can't imagine our lives. They grew up in an era in which there was usually someone at home caring for kids or elders. Nursing homes were hellholes. Only bad parents sent their children to daycare; and only bad children sent their parents to "those places".

Our 2 career, or single parent, or single wage earner lives have us stressed to the max. There is no extra time and no extra money. There is no benevolent boss saying, sure take two weeks at full pay. We need to do what we have to to get care for our parents. Sometimes that includes things that our parents can't imagine could be workable. But we have to take care of ourselves and our families, first and foremost. That is the way it SHOULD be. If you have to push back, so be it.
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Bravo, Babalou, I couldn't have said it better.

My parents think I should retire and let my sig other pay my way.... they are of the era where a man was King of his castle and he took care of his beloved. The last time my Mom worked outside of the home for a paycheck was 1946.

I might see the 'sense of entitlement' show up if my Dad should pass on first, as Mom would probably insist I quit work and come live with her. It won't be easy to convince her I can't do that. She would outlive me. On the other hand, Dad likes being around people of his own age group, so getting him to move to a retirement village would be easy, like sending a kid to summer camp :)
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I am grateful for several people in my extended family...my mom's older dister, my sister in law and her mom, all of whom showed my mom over the years that women could work and still be spectacularly good wives and mothers. My mother always said that she was too tired to work outside the home. In retrospect, I believe she was exhausted from pretending that life was 1950's June Cleaver perfect. Depression takes a lot out of you. Once I got mine treated, I was able to move mountains (have kids, go to grad school, have a successful career and second marriage).
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I guess my experience was different. I was raised being told the reason my mom had me was to have someone to take care of her in her old age. It was supposed to be my responsibility since she had taken care of her mom for 13years. From when i was in kindergarten until after my freshman year at college. She was never there for me growing up but as an only child i, my children and grandchildren are supposed to make whatever sacrifices are necessary for her comfort and support. She has some money in the bank,not a lot but is holding on with an iron hand for her "old age". My husband and I are 61, I have spent some of my savings getting her what she needs. By the way the womanis 97. I think her old age has arrived. I have slept on hospital room floors in a sleeping bag when she had heart surgery 13years ago and put the 9year old grandson in daycare for one year so I could go take care of her but I only hear how I dont love her or do enough. She was active in the church when i was a child and i have heard how lucky i am she is my mother...if they only knew.
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Babalou - Glory hallelujah and Amen. You nailed it. My mom has never understood that my professional career is not like the jobs she had in the textile mill, the drugstore cafe, the dry-cleaner's, etc. that you could just drop out of for any length of time and then go back. (She did that pretty frequently.) If I dropped out of my profession for even a year I would have a very hard time finding work again. I would lose my certification. I would drop from a senior way back down to a junior pay grade. I would lose all my medical benefits! My husband and children are the only people on earth I would voluntarily give that up for, without a question. But they would never, ever demand it of me. The concept of losing out on 15+ years of salary and savings is a pretty drastic thing to ask.

Lastresort - Your mom needs to fund herself - period. You are shortchanging yourself by taking out of YOUR savings. Sit down and calculate the interest you have lost out on because of that. It's more than just the dollar amount you spent. You can hold on with an iron hand too. When they say manipulative things like "you don't love me" it is 100% pure emotional blackmail. You don't need to be yanked around like that.

My mom has said all those lovely things to me to get her way. She used to reduce me to tears on a daily basis. Once I got married & had my first, I realized how mothers are supposed to be. I began a journey of rejecting that kind of shabby treatment from her, changing my responses to it, changing my expectations from her. It was hard and so stressful. My husband has helped me find my voice and my boundaries. It's taken a long, long time but the old dog has no teeth anymore. The other supportive folks on this site made a huge difference too. There really is strength in numbers.
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Babalou, I know my Mom would never go back out into the workforce because her *job* was to take care of the house, take care of me, and have dinner on the table when Dad came home from work. And all that took all the hours in the day to do.

It took me a while to figure out how it would take Mom most of the day to do a couple loads of laundry back when Dad was still working. Well, sorting the clothes, soaking the clothes, treating the stains, scrubbing the ring around the collar on Dad's white shirts, putting the clothes in the washer.... then put the clothes in the dryer for a few minutes, take them out of the dryer, carrying the clothes down to the basement and hang each and every item on the clotheslines. After awhile taking down Dad's white shirts from the clothesline while still damp, rolling up the shirts and putting them into the refrigerator so she could iron the shirts in the afternoon. Then onto the second load of clothes. OMG.
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I guess no one realized that ring around the collar was an invention of the advertising agencies. No one sees it; no one cares. Our poor mom's were certainly sold a bill of goods by the "Madmen"!
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Let's not forget in the summer time when our Mom's were hanging the sheets outside, back then it was white sheets and you had to have had the whitest sheets on the block. And I remember my Mom ironing the sheets because they weren't perma pressed. Heck, I remember ironing sheets, too, when I was first married :P
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Oh, horrors. No wonder women needed "mother's little helper" pills.
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