What financial information to provide to siblings?

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What financial information to provide to siblings?

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I am my mom's Conservator and Guardian for almost 7 years now. I have only been providing my siblings with the financial paperwork/forms that the court has me complete yearly for annual report, etc. My siblings had been very hands off and I have always told them if they need receipts, or needed to see anything else to let me know, come by my home and I would sit down with them and provide more. Now all of a sudden it is a problem. I'm being told I don't provide them with any information. I am not trying to hide anything from them and wish they were more involved since they never visit mom or help me do anything for her. Do I have to provide all mom's bank accounts statements to them?

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Great question - Great answers - Great discussion....I have been there and am still in similar BS situation.....my parents have passed so I'm no longer caregiver/POA dealing with non visiting non helping siblings.....but as I was told 2 wks before my mom passed (oct 2017) - if u think ur siblings are bad now, imagine what they will be like when your mom (the glue) is gone - I said r u fing kidding me! how could it get any worse....well it did get worse - pretty sure the guy knocking/ringing doorbell last nite came to serve me papers - as siblings are fing idiots.....I digress, sorry :) .....so my BEST IMMEDIATE ADVICE - don't give them anything - hire estate planning attorney - the laws on this are primarily state laws and it can be very diff state to state - but you have fiduciary responsibility - so let the attorney tell you what to do. And if possible also hire an elder care social worker/counselor to help with reviewing care and other aspects - they are great for referring you to experts in all areas - they represent your parent and were very helpful for me - also get a tax person - even if just HR block. These expenses should be able to all be paid out of parents $$ as they are helping/representing your parent - confirm that with attny. These experts can both advise and also help give you some peace of mind in doing your difficult job. GOOD LUCK!

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Pepper, you can not honestly believe that he owes her for living in her house when he had no choice, 2 years old and you are holding him accountable for his moms and grandma's decision to have them live there. He has been doing it for 7 years. Let's see, you were cared for by this woman for 16 to 18 years, maybe longer, free of charge, when do you go take care of her, I mean it is the least you can do for living in her house free of charge from birth.

You can not say that someone that has been declared incompetent only needs to have someone give them meds and feed them with a straight face, can you? If that is true, how did you get guardianship? Is this young man even competent himself?

You have obviously NEVER given one day of care or you would be paying him for his care of your mom.

I can not even believe that you would say that he owes her because as a baby she gave him a home.

You are lucky you are not my sibling, you would not be able to exploit my nephew in this sick and twisted reality of yours.

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Pepper I am still trying hard to sympathise, and I fully agree that the only way to go from here is onwards, by tackling this now. But even if not to us, you are going to have some explaining to do. Do you have anyone to help you get everything sorted out?

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Pepper1, I've only just seen Isthis's direction to your question about back taxes - oh yikes.

Recalling my mother's filing "system" I have every sympathy with papers coming to light in horrifying ways; but even so, can you explain having overlooked her tax situation altogether? I'm surprised that this task was never drawn to your attention by anyone, and that you haven't received reminders or demands from the tax authorities, in six years. What's gone on?

I wonder: have you been dealing with the bulk of her taxes as normal routine, but this is another area that you've only just become aware of, or something like that?

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The plan is to take care of this now.

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Recall to your siblings and their apparent bad memory that you did provide financial paperwork to them. This is appalling that they're now wanting more information when they never cared to be involved in your mother's care! Although I hate to say it, perhaps you'd best arm yourself with an elder law attorney.

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Maybe you need competent legal assistance. Find out what is ok in your state and go from there.

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From a legal perspective, probably not, but I'd touch base with an elder law attorney. My gut says they are probably feeling guilty for their lack of effort, and/or there is a lack of trust about your record-keeping, and/or they want to know what their share of the pot is. Another question for the elder law attorney based on the level of support (all) you have been doing. I'm sure you are doing plenty without having to invest more of your time and energy in providing reports if they are not needed.

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Oh *Pepper*! I'm so sorry you've had this hurtful battering from your siblings. How horrible.

I absolutely hate this, it makes me sick at heart, but there is a widespread school of thought at large in the world that thinks it is clever to be cynical, suspicious and disbelieving; and to go about "fact"-finding in a covert way instead of asking straightforward questions. If your sister's ears prick up whenever there's a radio or tv programme or news item about terrible abuses of elderly parents, it's natural that she should pay it attention. But then, sadly, instead of saying to you "what's the form with mother's money, then?" she ferrets about and picks up dog-ends of information and puts two and two together and comes up with one hundred and three. Then there's a whispering campaign, and all kinds of sour grumblings ferment, and then they nominate a spokesman and get together and the whole ghastly situation boils over into a verbal assault, like you just had.

And how DARE they? How dare they accuse you of "stealing" what would in fact anyway be a piffling sum of money in comparison to what your mother's costs must have been over all this time, and then make these accusations without even having bothered to provide the facts on which they reckon to base them?

It's outrageous, and you have every right to be outraged. But as you see I think it's more likely that they've been too clever by half (and have got themselves into a mess over it) than that they're trying to pinch the loot.

You want two things:

an apology, with as much grovelling as you see fit;
a family modus operandi to be followed in future.

You need to write to all of them.

Remind them of when you originally invited them to ask if they had questions, and that none of them has taken the trouble, and repeat the invitation.

Outline for them the process you undergo annually in order to provide the court with information, and again remind them that they have had access to these reports, and again were free to ask for further details but didn't do so.

Explain to them the duty of confidentiality you owe to your mother as Conservator, and that nonetheless you are willing to within those bounds to account for any spending they don't understand.

Tell them that their way of going about this has been incredibly hurtful and destructive, and that it is now for them to put it right.

Close by commenting that this will not affect their being welcome to visit your mother, of course. If you were me, it would be extremely difficult to do this without saying something about "in the unlikely event that you feel a sudden urge to" - but that is what you must not do. Resist!

*** Focus on what you want to happen next ***

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Pepper1, you don't have to provide bank statements to siblings unless doing so is required by the court that appointed you as your mom's conservator. Whether or not you should provide such information depends on whether doing so is likely to resolve the problem or avoid future problems. Whether you legally can provide the bank statements depends on the court order. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau provides general guidance on this issue in its "Help for court-appointed guardians of property and conservators" (page 17). See at https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201310_cfpb_lay_fiduciary_guides_guardians.pdf

Meeting with your three siblings was a good idea, but, given your description of flat-out accusations rather than just questions being asked, it sounds like having a professional mediator might have made the meeting more productive.

Isthisrealyreal insightfully wondered if your caregiver nephew may be needing more help and is venting to the wrong people. If so, it may be time to start seriously considering supplemental or other caregiving options for your mom. As you know, the progressive nature of Alzheimer's dementia requires continual reassessment of caregiving needs and alternatives, but the daily stresses of being the responsible party or the primary caregiver can easily result in overlooking reassessments and alternatives, i.e. it's often easier to cope by just keeping your head down and continuing to do what you've been doing. Best wishes in this difficult journey.

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No answers on this yet? I’m wondering same thing.

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Pepper1, am I correct that you do not actually care for your mom. She lives in her home with a grandson or nephew taking care of her?

Could it be that the caregiver is lacking in something he needs, like a vacation and is venting to the wrong people?

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This is possible. I had repairs done to the home last year and all I heard was he was tired of people coming into the home. He complained about the things that needed to be done there so I got them done but I guess he didn't think the delivery people were not suppose to come into the home. Real strange! I couldn't understand since he is there all the time anyway but I do understand caregiver burnout. I had words with him about this but like I said, he's a little strange. I think he wants to live there and do nothing but that's not going to happen.

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Have read through most of these. From what I have learned, you have the right and responsibility as POA to protect your loved ones health and financial information. You should not be giving out any information to anyone but the courts, lawyers. Just because someone is a relative doesn't mean a person can get on their property, take things, or are entitled to health or financial information.
It is your duty to protect them and all information.

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I do not have POA.

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I haven't read all the comments yet, but seems like it's agreed that you are not obligated to give them any more information than you've been. That being said, you did tell them that if wanted to see receipts or anything else, to let you know. That left them an in to try and bully you. So, in order to show them that it's not going to happen, you need to be proactive not reactive. Don't be defensive when they ask a question or want information (even if you feel suspicious). Answer their question with a question -- "Why?" Let THEM explain themselves. And when they can "find" that paperwork, tell them you will work in into your schedule to go over.
(I'm not telling you what to do, but I've had to deal with this kind of ridiculous behavior before).

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I am in a similar situation. I told them I am glad they want to be more involved and would prefer we be a team involved in moms care. I discuss expenses now and ask for help for daily things. Sounds like you are offering transparency which is important and hopefully can get more overall involvement. I found it too much to do alone and said so.

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I am in the same situation my siblings decided without my consent to move our mom to a nursing home while I was not in the USA thereby no opposition but when I returned I was able to have mom execute a POA for both Financial and Health Care thereby stripping my siblings of the power and moved our mom into my home now I have to give a financial report annually too and all I am going to give them is income combined plus her assets still in banks and her expenses for the year and nothing more

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Why do you owe them anything? They haven't been involved in your mom's care.. I am POA for both my parents with dementia and I don't provide my sniveling, uninvolved siblings with anything. They are also hands off and I am doing the best I can.. I don't need one more chore to provide them with information. I can just imagine how they would be involved..nit picking every decision I make and hoping some $$$ will be left for them in an inheritance.

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I made the same assessment. When it came time to finding a place for Dad's care, my brother wanted to see only the financials and didn't care to check out the different assisted living facilities. If you're going to be involved, you need to be involved where it counts. I have professionals helping me manage his assets and they are to be used for his care. I don't want my siblings counting on an inheritance when they do their retirement planning.

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You have received some excellent information here. There’s nothing for me to add, except want to say I support your decisions. As another person said, beyond what is needed to satisfy the court, you owe your mom confidentiality regarding her financial records. I’m learning so much from posts like yours. I was raised in a family where no financial training was ever received. Not even shown how to balance a checkbook by my parents. Learning from your sad situation of some of the pitfalls, when people see $$. Since I trust my youngest son, I’ll probably set things up for him to be my POA.
As an aside, I remember well many years ago when my beloved Nano was declining, my own mother, her daughter, tried to bully me into caring for her, when I had three sons under five years old, very frugal standard of living. When I told her I could not care for Nano, her narcissistic behavior took over. She screamed at me that she didn’t want Medicare taking all her assets, it was HER inheritance. Not a sibling, but greed and sense of entitlement.

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You don't owe them anything especially if you are court authorized. I am my mom's conservatory and guardian. I file two reports each year. One to social services and one to an attorney. These reports are my accountability. If anything, give them a copy of those reports. I would not waste my time making copies of receipts or bank statements for them. And shame on them for their lack of concern for 7 years until money is involved.

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First, let me say thank you for all the helpful responses. Now, you're not going to believe this! I met with the siblings Saturday and got beat to hell and back. The 3 of them had the nerve to accuse me of stealing $3000 of my moms money from her account. I am so hurt, having chest pains, etc. from all the accusations. I just can't believe this is happening. I love my family dearly and would never accuse them of stealing money unless I had proof. Well, this was my question to them since they say I don't provide them with adequate finances. No one had any kind of paperwork but said they had it at home and couldn't find it. Mind you this would have to be from annual reports I file with the courts so I don't know what they are talking about. I can't begin to tell you how hurt I am and like I said they do nothing for my mom at all. I am the one the throws the parties for the family, tries to keep us together and would give them the shirt off my back and they do this to me. I am done with them. My husband is hurt also and knows my mom didn't raise a thief! I've never been the type to let money rule me. Why didn't they sit down with me and say "we think there is missing funds." Let us come to help you find out why it seems this way. Anything but to actually accuse me. My nephew told me my sister spear headed this over a year ago and has turned my two brothers against me. She tried to get him involved. She's always been very messy and jealous. What nerve, she's been retired 2 years now and goes to see mom maybe once every 3 months and lives closer than I do. My brother mentioned taking over moms finances. I told him he would have to go to court to do so. What do you make of this? You think they may be after the inheritance?

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You just have to be tough minded here. The less you say, the less you have to explain. Line up an attorney - don't pay fees, just have a name available in case you need to have them level set to your siblings (in a letter) what you are required to provide to them as Conservator and Guardian. You may already have such a letter available to you from the court.

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You are the Sole Guardian Here, dear, Not any of your Sniveling Siblings. Provide them with Receipts to try and Keep off any Heat. They don't Need to See any of their own No Business Bank Receipts. Tell them what I said.

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I made the mistake of providing mom’s financial information to my daughters and they nit picked over her money and wanted guardianship. I keep accurate records and was able to prove to the courts that money was being used for her care. I provide an annual report to the courts and no one else. My response now is “I will provide you with moms finances when you provide me with your finances.”

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You don't owe them jack squat.

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I got POA many many years before my mom suffered Alzheimer's disease; alternatively I made her MY POA..which now she is unable to do. This was the time to do it. Dealing with my mom's very severe Alzheimer's--she is 100% dependent on my care and requires hand feeding, managing her bowels, etc., I also absorbed the family estate because I had to. My brothers have no say because they are completely out of the picture. Do see an eldercare attorney for estate planning and if you are not POA you need to Petition the Court because it will have to be court appointed. I also have access to her banking to pay bills because she is unable. I have never shared a single bit of information to my brothers because it's none of their business as they are completely out of the picture of her care. Mom deserves to live the rest of her days in her own home and not a nursing home. My brothers agree to that, and they have never pressed the issue of disclosing what I have to do to keep her going. Due to estate planning nothing will go into probate, and that's the way it should be.

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Estate planning is huge! My parents did this and having their lawyer who was well versed in all things legal for handling my parents' estates was amazing.

I once had a sister call the lawyer and accuse me of misappropriating my dad's funds (my mom was deceased by that time). Wow! did that comment hurt and crush me deeply. This sibling also made the comment at one time, "I don't know why Mom and Dad didn't just appoint all 5 of us (5 kids in my family) to be their POA." I know why they didn't, and they knew why, too. Parents often know the skills and weaknesses of their children (I know this about my own), and they will hopefully choose a child (or 2) to manage their care, but not 5 kids! Thankfully, my dad's lawyer called my sister on her accusation and told her that he sees all the financial records and had never seen anything that appeared to be a "misappropriation of funds." He assured her that he would have me bring in the most recent bank statements to see if there was any truth to her claim. She seemed to back down a bit after he said this, but the damage was done.

I gave over 10 years in my life to help both my mom and dad. Some of my siblings were more helpful than others when it came to assisting me and our folks. Some were more complacent and didn't mind not having to put in extra time and energy to do more. Some were good at trying to "stir up strife" and I do have scars from that. I don't know how many times I went into the lawyer and said, "I can't do this anymore. It's killing my relationships with my siblings!” He would then go over the list of those who were named in the Trust/Will documents to take on the POA, should I no longer do it. When he named my younger brother, I said, "I can't do that to him, he has 4 boys he's trying to provide for, and this is like having at least another part-time job!" Usually, all it took was for me to recognize that my parents (and God) chose me for this task. It would not be easy, but by God's grace I could do it. I managed to help with both parents' care, make many financial decisions (including selling their home), make more medical decisions than most mom's ever make for their own children, plan and execute 2 funerals, and even plan and execute a memorial art show in my dad's honor. I have no regrets, I handled everything in a moral, ethical, and legal way.

Keep up the good work that you're doing. Your lawyer can deal with your siblings in the future, if need be. You don't need the added stress of their "stirring the pot." Take care of yourself, as much as you can. Get help (and use your mom's funds to do it!)—both of you deserve this.

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Are you POA? It's really none of their business as in right to privacy just as their finances are their own affairs. If you are not POA you better get it--you will need to see an eldercare attorney to Petition the Court. because siblings are like vultures and they just want a piece of the money pie. If you are POA you have total control with finances since your loved one is completely unable. WIthout a POA you are at their mercy.

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If the OP filed her reporting papers every year with the court for review, the court also has some ownership of taxes not being filed since they apparently missed that in the review too.

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I didn't think they revieweed those reports, just had them if there were problems arising

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I would not give them any financial information. You are your moms guardian and as such have a responsibility to her to keep her information private.

You have offered them a solution to any questions that they have, stick to that. You are busy enough caring for mom solo that this is undue aggravation from them.

Quite frankly, if you were being inappropriate with her funds the court would intervene. Obviously you are not, so tell them they can come visit and ask questions but you would be derelict in your responsibilities to give them financial information that doesn't concern anyone but mom and you by court appointment.

Why any adult feels entitled to view their parents personal finances while they are still alive just boggles the mind, my parents would tell me to go pound sand. The only reason I had any access or information was to pay bills while he was in hospital and SNF.

Hopefully they will come visit mom and understand that it's not their business to receive any more information than what you provide to the courts.

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Maybe the adult has a guardian because they are vulnerable. Maybe others care about her too. Not so mind boggling looked at in that light.

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I would think your duty as guardian/conservator would be to meet all the court's requirements. If you tell family you are willing to show all receipts, etc., then it should be up to them to arrange to see them and go over them with you. They can then assure themselves that your expenditures are legitimate. I would not think you have any duty to publish reports to them, just to the court. Is this about their wanting to see what the whole financial picture is regarding their inheritance, not just verify your actions as guardian/conservator? If that is the case, then your fiduciary duty may be privacy. Can you question the court about your responsibilities? or an attorney of your choice?

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Pepper, looking at your history I imagine that the last court attorney (was this 7 years ago, when you were going through the guardianship process, do you mean?) or any attorney supervising your guardianship now, would only be half helpful.

Helpful in that your siblings' request for information would be met with a blank stare. The court would have no interest in relieving their curiosity. They are not parties to the court's arrangements.

But very unhelpful in terms of how you protect your mother's right to a relationship with her children and any future relationship you might want to have with your siblings, and as regards your natural inclination to share information, within reason, with your nearest-and-dearest hem-hem. Especially if you retain any hope of encouraging them to pay your mother some attention while they still can.

To repeat an earlier question - what has happened just recently that has made them restless?

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Sheesh. What's with people sometimes? No offense, of course. But how about they hop on over to your house-see what it's REALLY like to take care of someone and deal with all of this. Then ask their 'financial' questions. Don't be pushed around. Keep doing what you know is the right thing. Same here, by the way, so I get it.

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I would think your guardianship is such you don't need to reveal anything. Tell your family you have given them exactly what the state requires of you. That the state oversees the guardianship. That as her guardian, you don't feel comfortable about giving out any information that Mom would feel is her business only.

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