For 3 years my father has POA for his 99 yr old mother (seemingly competent-just deaf and old) who is living in an assisted living facility. My father is seriously ill, has months to live, has end stage liver disease. He went into the hospital, then rehab, then LTC, back to hospital. He has given up taking care of his own financial affairs; I am his POA. I pay his bills now and have since he went into the hospital. He can't go home as he needs round the clock care.
The POA he has for his mother has no secondary POA-I've checked. I informed grandma's only other child-my uncle- of the situation. He has done very little for his mother over the years. My father first lived with grandma and my grandfather died, took her to appointments, cooked and shopped, hired people to clean and do her hair and bathing for 3 years before he got POA. Eventually, she went to a nursing home and then ALF and set up my dad as POA. Now he's dying and her bills are going unpaid.
Uncle wanted to get POA at first. He sent the form to her (he lives out of state) and the ALF notary was present. Grandma didn't sign it because she couldn't compare it to the current POA and she wants to sign only if it's the same in substance. Uncle got frustrated, seems to have backed off on POA . His attorney announced that he was going to petition for guardianship but he seems to have dropped that too and likely would not have been successful since grandma is sharp for 99.
As you might expect, my uncle and my father hate each other. My uncle was suspicious of my father's handling of grandma's finances because he couldn't oversee and says the way my dad did the accounting (hand done, not on computer) was too confusing. In a nutshell, my uncle is obsessed with keep tabs on all of my grandmother's money and how my dad managed it and doesn't seem very concerned about what will happen once my dad passes away from his disease and noone is in place to carry on for grandma.
I have been trying to help my father set something up to help keep grandma's bills paid but we haven't gotten much advice we can act on. It comes down to if grandma is competent (we think yes) and she has to decide who next POA is. I'm thinking of sending a packet of information to her since calling and even visiting (remote visit, talking on a phone) doesn't work due to her deafness. I will explain how dad can't continue and it is her choice to decide POA. I can provide a copy of the current POA again, give her the attorney's contact info that prepared the POA, make sure she has my phone number and her other son's number (she forgets numbers). This was recommended by someone here on this forum and I like this idea of sending the information packet.
I can't keep spending 6-8 hrs a day calling elder law attorneys, office for the aging, etc trying to solve this problem that I have no authority over when my father is dying and I have to help him. I actually CAN help him since I have POA for him. My grandmother can choose me as POA, if she wants and I'll probably accept but I want her to make the decision since my uncle doesn't trust me, either. I'm my father's daughter, after all.
If my father dies, there is no POA. No one except my grandmother would have authorization to access her accounts. She has funds in multiple places that sometimes need to be moved into checking accounts to pay her bills.
What will happen to my grandmother? Will the social worker at her ALF talk to the state about who should get guardianship? I think it's weak that my uncle has seemingly walked away. He wrote the ALF and cc'd me, saying that since ALF says grandma is competent and my father is lucid, my father should find a way to figure it out. He also wrote me to say that because my father didn't hire an accountant to keep financial records it's too complicated for him to understand.
I hate to say I'm ready to walk away from this because I love my grandmother but I do feel that way. I feel like my uncle should step up.
I.e., apparently she has a copy of the existing doc appointing your father as proxy, and wants to compare it to any proposed new document. Help her make a decision, and stop spending 6 - 8 hours daily calling attorneys (this I don't understand; that's a LOT of time to spend on phone calls.)
Contact the attorney who prepared the existing document and ask if he/she or others in the firm would be willing to handle preparation of a new document, including going to where your grandmother is staying for the document execution. Raise the issue of "sameness" so the attorney will be prepared to summarize the appointment issues and anything else of which your GM wants to be assured.
I worked for 2 firms in which the attorneys did this. One was when my sister had been intubated, pulled out the tube and was coherent, but too weak to move. An attorney for whom I had worked came to the hospital, briefly went over the issues, prepared the documents and then returned later for execution.
Another firm was similarly cooperative: the female attorney (again, for whom I worked), visited a dying woman, came back; we worked quickly to get everything done, then the attorney returned the following day and the dox were executed. The woman died later that day.
If you're not getting cooperation from attorneys you're calling, you're probably getting the "elder law" attorneys who got on the bandwagon years ago, as opposed to established probate, estate and trust planning law firms.
I wouldn't walk away, and I wouldn't get involved with the uncle, but I would try to minimize the decisions GM has to make, and find an attorney who can come to her.
If you need help selecting attorneys, post back and I can offer some guidelines.
My uncle now has decided that this situation is my father's to deal with. He's a real peach.
The 6-8 hrs of me on the phone, well, maybe I'm exaggerating. Its more like 6-8 hrs of dealing with nursing homes and legal stuff. I spend hours doing internet research, call Office for the aging numbers, get referred to other people. Call an elder law attorney, they say they can't help, call this other number, I call. Leave voicemails, wait for replies. Call my dad and talk to him. Make calls to his hospital for updates on his condition since they don't call me. Try to locate his phone that is at his LTC facility that he only spent 3 days in before going back to the hospital. I've also had multiple emails to the social workers at grandma's ALF to discuss the situation and the latest angry email from my uncle. Try to locate grandma's paperwork that my uncle and his attorney demanded they have , then he sent to grandma's nursing home when he decided to not do a damn thing.
I'm now looking at driving 6 hrs to go pick up a box of her paperwork/docs that he sent to her (which upset her) so I can physically bring bills and checks to my dad's hospital room so he can sign and get stuff paid.
Thank you.
You have your hands full and your Dad, very sadly, is out of the picture; so yes, you have it about right - this will be for your competent grandmother to sort out with support from the appropriately qualified people at her ALF. That's okay. They should make sure that everything is explained to her properly and carried out with her agreement, so in a way maybe it's for the best that your uncle has counted himself out - it avoids painful disputes now or later. There are always ways and means, it's just a bit more expensive to pay a professional rather than appoint a family member.
Next, look at his POA paperwork for your grandmother. There will be an official stamp of the law firm that drew it up. This is who you and your father deal with.
Forget about hiring an elder attorney. Stop trying to call the office for aging or any other government agency because they are a complete waste of time and you will get nowhere. POA only kicks in if a person is incapacitated and incapable of making their own decisions. If grandma is still "sharp" as you say, then the responsibility for her is still on her.
She needs to go and see the lawyer who did the original POA for her and have your father removed from it and someone else put on it. You state further down in the posts that this lawyer is 'afraid' of the lawyer your uncle has. That's a crock sh*t and there's something that you're either leaving out or are dramatizing about. One lawyer is not afraid of another one. As for your father. He should not be handling grandma's affairs in his condition. He shouldn't have been anyway if she's still competent. The lawyer can transfer her POA over to you.
If you don't want to take it on (and God knows I would not encourage you to because I know how that is), then your uncle can have it. If he isn't interested then the probate court in town will appoint a conservator over her which is usually a lawyer or social worker. If she goes into a nursing home, it will be the nursing home.
I don't see where Dads bookkeeping would be that bad. You see money being drawn out of one account, being put into another account. You see bills being paid on the account and checks written off that account. My moms bank statements showed it all. If I reimbursed myself, I kept the receipts in an envelope by month with the check # I used on the envelope. Your Uncle should just start where Dad finished off. How many bills could a woman living in an AL have? Unless she owns property.
Did Dad do transfers online? If so, you can do that. Whose to know it wasn't Dad. You can write checks and have Dad sign them.
I think at this point the responsibility falls on your Uncle. He needs to go see your grandmom with the paperwork. He then needs to get the financials from Dad and get all banking records changed. You should not be worrying about this and either should Dad. Maybe a lawyer can take over at this point.
Is not a copy of the POA assigned to Dad in grandmoms file at the AL. I am pretty sure mine was on file and with Moms PCP.
my dad kept pretty good records. It’s all there: statements, checkbook registers, receipts. My dad also kept a ledge that he’d update at the end of the year to show if CDs were cashed to deposit into checking account to pay for Grandma’s finances.
you’d be surprised at how complicated her finances are. There are funds in multiple places and she still has a property that’s been vacant for 3 yrs-ugh.
I doubt your uncle would do a good job if his heart is not in it. Are there potentially assets to protect? I think it might be possible to revisit an elder care attorney whom you trust. It is possible that this attorney could become POA for your grandmother. This would avoid the quardianship issue which will eat into funds. I am not saying cut the uncle out. Just distribute evenly. It will take longer once she passes but may be the best option. Assets and properties would be sold by the lawyer and ideally they would take a percentage. This is what is happening to a late friend of my mother's. She had no family assigned but she had a law firm overseeing the distribution of assets. In this case it is taking longer as she had many beneficiaries,an apartment full of antiques and the apartment in NYC itself to be sold. My mother is one of the beneficiaries. I am dealing with the lawyer now with my POA sent to them as this is too confusing for my mother. This woman died in 2018 and it is not finished yet although the apartment was sold in late 2020 which took years to clear. Just my thoughts.
You shoukd let Grandma know that Your Dad can not do it anymore and tell her her choices would be the State to handle it or you, or you could ask point blank If she wants to ask her other son.
I don't know if you GM would qualify for guardianship or conservatorship if she is competent but unable to take care of her finances, but it is something to check into if your uncle is unwilling to step up and your GM is unwilling to sign a new POA. If GM is willing find an attorney who can visit your GM.
Good Luck and remember to breathe.
Give your g'ma the old POA and a new one with you doing same service for her as your dad did. Uncle had the opportunity to step up and he didn't. Do what you can to mind her affairs. If uncle says anything later on, remind him that he had the chance.
I've traveled to be with him in his last days/hours as I’m all he has, really.
I have so much to do to attend to his affairs. I’ve given the attorney the information he needs to draw up a new POA for my grandmother and it’s her choice. If she wants me to be involved, of course I will step up.